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Lemmy World outages (lemmy.world)
submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Hello there!

It has been a while since our last update, but it's about time to address the elephant in the room: downtimes. Lemmy.World has been having multiple downtimes a day for quite a while now. And we want to take the time to address some of the concerns and misconceptions that have been spread in chatrooms, memes and various comments in Lemmy communities.

So let's go over some of these misconceptions together.

"Lemmy.World is too big and that is bad for the fediverse".

While one thing is true, we are the biggest Lemmy instance, we are far from the biggest in the Fediverse. If you want actual numbers you can have a look here: https://fedidb.org/network

The entire Lemmy fediverse is still in its infancy and even though we don't like to compare ourselves to Reddit it gives you something comparable. The entire amount of Lemmy users on all instances combined is currently 444,876 which is still nothing compared to a medium sized subreddit. There are some points that can be made that it is better to spread the load of users and communities across other instances, but let us make it clear that this is not a technical problem.

And even in a decentralised system, there will always be bigger and smaller blocks within; such would be the nature of any platform looking to be shaped by its members. 

"Lemmy.World should close down registrations"

Lemmy.World is being linked in a number of Reddit subreddits and in Lemmy apps. Imagine if new users land here and they have no way to sign up. We have to assume that most new users have no information on how the Fediverse works and making them read a full page of what's what would scare a lot of those people off. They probably wouldn't even take the time to read why registrations would be closed, move on and not join the Fediverse at all. What we want to do, however, is inform the users before they sign up, without closing registrations. The option is already built into Lemmy but only available on Lemmy.ml - so a ticket was created with the development team to make these available to other instance Admins. Here is the post on Lemmy Github.

Which brings us to the third point:

"Lemmy.World can not handle the load, that's why the server is down all the time"

This is simply not true. There are no financial issues to upgrade the hardware, should that be required; but that is not the solution to this problem.

The problem is that for a couple of hours every day we are under a DDOS attack. It's a never-ending game of whack-a-mole where we close one attack vector and they'll start using another one. Without going too much into detail and expose too much, there are some very 'expensive' sql queries in Lemmy - actions or features that take up seconds instead of milliseconds to execute. And by by executing them by the thousand a minute you can overload the database server.

So who is attacking us? One thing that is clear is that those responsible of these attacks know the ins and outs of Lemmy. They know which database requests are the most taxing and they are always quick to find another as soon as we close one off. That's one of the only things we know for sure about our attackers. Being the biggest instance and having defederated with a couple of instances has made us a target.  

"Why do they need another sysop who works for free"

Everyone involved with LW works as a volunteer. The money that is donated goes to operational costs only - so hardware and infrastructure. And while we understand that working as a volunteer is not for everyone, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. As a volunteer you decide how much of your free time you are willing to spend on this project, a service that is also being provided for free.

We will leave this thread pinned locally for a while and we will try to reply to genuine questions or concerns as soon as we can.

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[-] [email protected] 42 points 11 months ago

A fantastic job is being done by you folks - obviously in the face of adversity. Given the amount of users on the instance is at a critical point, would it not be possible to 'move' accounts off it onto other less populated instances ?

Keep up the great work folks - I sympathise for ya.

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[-] [email protected] 42 points 11 months ago

Thank you for the update. Good work.

[-] [email protected] 40 points 11 months ago

I was wondering why the CloudFlare protection doesn't work, this makes sense. Does CF have any point then? Lots of people don't like it.

It's weird someone would spend so much time to target LW. Ah well.

[-] [email protected] 37 points 11 months ago

Cloudflare can only protect so much from the number of requests. The bad actors are spamming inefficiencies in the SQL backend not blasting the front end with web requests

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[-] [email protected] 39 points 11 months ago

Take your time bros I don't need this shit 24/7 the downtime is fine and expected

[-] [email protected] 38 points 11 months ago

I’m imagining spez is sending his flying monkeys and they’ve been trying to shut it all down. Doesn’t matter that you’re smaller than Reddit, Egos like spez’s can’t take even a minor rumble. Just look at how he has to ‘win’ against all his own users. Should tell you all you need to know on his motives.

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[-] [email protected] 38 points 11 months ago

I guess it's that guy who said he was going to break the site. Remember that guy? Something about not being allowed to open loads of communities or something.

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[-] [email protected] 37 points 11 months ago

Thank you for everything you do. You guys are doing a fantastic job, and a lot of us sincerely appreciate all your efforts!

[-] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago

Thanks for the transparency and the update! Downtime to me is useful, it prevents me from using Lemmy too much.

[-] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago

Glad you guys resisted the call to close signups. I think that's what they want in the end, to harm lemmy.world by killing it's growth.

[-] [email protected] 33 points 11 months ago

You guys are trying your best, and that's what matters. Thank you LW Team.

[-] [email protected] 33 points 11 months ago

Thank you for your hard work

[-] [email protected] 33 points 11 months ago

Thank you for your time & efforts in maintaining this platform. I (and many others I'm sure) have great respect for the work you do in trying to combat this menace. The community is completely behind you and appreciates the value of this resource.

[-] [email protected] 33 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I wonder if reddit, the company, are the ones ddosing.

[-] [email protected] 42 points 11 months ago

This is a conspiracy theory level hot take.

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[-] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago

You're managing this well. Good work folks.

[-] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago

Very grateful for your focus and dedication. Bummer about the DDOS bullshit. Your efforts mean a lot to the communities.

[-] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago

I hope you don't get burned out, I'm thinking that's the plan. That, and everyone else getting sick of the downtime will make everyone leave. This instance is the most like Reddit for me and I think that it's similar to many. Thanks for explaining it and I appreciate what you do.

[-] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago

Come on ddosers, we can always solve our differences with dialogue

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[-] [email protected] 28 points 11 months ago

Another heartfelt thanks—both for the hard work, and for the transparency.

[-] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago

In a way, the ddos attacks are helping highlight the slow parts of the system causing a reason to optimise them? It's kind of a double edged sword

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[-] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago

Well thanks for the update and your hard work. I am currently using lemm.ee as a backup account so that I can at least have my fix.

Hope the bastard(s) who are ddossing the server get some nice tropical diseases.

Lemmy.world also was my first step into the fediverse.

[-] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago

In terms of the "expensive" SQL queries - is this an issue that the lemmy devs are working on? I.e. is this a problem that might solve itself in time?

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[-] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago

Endless DDOS attacks. Sigh.

[-] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago

It's really annoying that it's down but I've found another instance to use when I'm not able to use this one. I hope you're able to stop these losers at some point. It's very frustrating what's happening but at the same time Lemmy is young and I think and hope it will be optimised so that it won't be a issue in the future.

Stay strong fellow lemmies, we're going to get trough this. For those of you that is very annoyed now: make a new account at some other instance. I've already got 3 accounts across 3 different instances already. Check what instance to join here: https://join-lemmy.org/instances

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[-] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago

The downtime is causing an issue with posting content from other instances - I've seen this a handful of times from kbin. I post something to a lemmy.world community, and kbin thinks it's there, but lemmy.world doesn't see it. But, the delete request seems to need to go through lemmy.world, which doesn't agree that the content exists. So my profile is filled with posts people on kbin can see, but no one else can, and I can't delete them. Is there any kind of catch-up mechanic for instances to try to agree on what content should be present if content was altered during downtime? I can see this becoming a lot more confusing as people look at a community from multiple different instances and see different content, not realizing this is unintended behavior.

The biggest misconception I've seen on Reddit and elsewhere is that you need an account on every single instance if you want to interact with content on that instance, and it's not supposed to be true but while this bug continues, it kind of is true.

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this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
3635 points (98.1% liked)

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