I run fedia.io. I also run Infosec.pub. Which is lemmy so I know a lot about both. Lemmy is much more robust, but I personally find the interface for Mbin much nicer and the development of it seems to be headed in a direction I like better than that of lemmy. At least for now.
this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2024
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Jerry ... admin of many instances!
the development of it seems to be headed in a direction I like better than that of lemmy
Just curious what sorts of things you have in mind here ... it's been a while since I used a k/mbin platform? (I was on kbin.social, RIP, hopefully it returns).
Mbin is very community oriented in it's development, collective decision-making and all that. Lemmy is more subject to the ideas of it's creators, for better or for worse.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I picked up by the Beehaw drama is that the Lemmy devs do not seem to be too interested in improving moderation support. I don't know if this is politics related but I wouldn't be surprised.
I think everyone is always interested in improving, but there are a billion different ideas of what improvement looks like. Especially with content moderation.
What is a brilliant way to handle some issues might cause new problems that may or may not be difficult to predict. A lot of people have a lot of ideas, and people feel strongly about it. And most importantly, it's a lot of work to implement and typically not the most fun work for developers who tend to be be underpaid at best anyway.
It seems every fediverse service that gets big enough has people chanting about a hard fork because the developers don't care enough about content moderation. I believe it's probably more that it's extremely difficult, and that developers facing the reality of the situation might come across as dismissive when responding to ideas and suggestions.
The Lemmy developers initially included a filter for numerous slurs - I have a hard time believing they don't want content moderation to be their own vision of as good as possible.
In the end our strength is in fragmentation. I believe, no matter how little moderation tools improve, the small instances I'm on will never get as awful as Reddit. And if they do, I'll migrate to another one that's more trigger-happy about defederating. :)
That said, not sure whether you're wrong and absolutely not correcting you! Just my five cents.
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Thanks for answering! Nothing against fedia, after all I'm posting from here, just asked out of curiosity.. would've been fun if the local magazines were somewhat more active. Though I guess there lies the fediverse's strength, of being able to post and read in this collection for example.
There’s a reason for that. About a year ago, Reddit started to implode. I set up Infosec.pub and Fedia to give people an alternative. There was a huge influx of people here creating all sorts of magazines, the same that you would see on Reddit. Fedia ran kbin at the time and it had all manner of problems, and over time people sort of wandered away. Either because they were tired of the problems or because they went back to Reddit.
In any event, what we see in the local magazines is the remnants of that initial migration. I really need to go and clean them up.
Now that Fedia is on mbin, things are much better. We still have issues now and then, but generally things work well.
Thanks for this! I escaped Reddit to Kbin.social to Kbin.run, and now landed at Fedia.io. I need to reconstruct some of the communities I started on the previous two. And will soon. It's just gotten a bit busy IRL.
Unrelated, but does anyone know what happened to kbin.run?
The admin deleted all of his accounts and the kbin.run server without warning a few days ago.
Well that sucks, I was enjoying that instance. Oh well, Fedia will do, mostly the same in the end 🤷♂️
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An offtopic but federation is not working on fedia.io right now.
I fixed it a few hours ago, but it takes a while to catch up.
From a moderator perspective it seems essential to have a microblogging section, because otherwise people make entire posts for simple questions or personal achievements. That plagues Reddit, drags down the whole site.
I still think it's missing something though, streaming video service support. Mbin's idea of combining known socials works great in that respect. Text and image, but needs video support. P2P maybe, no storage needed.
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Simply by choosing a lesser used fedi software you're helping keep the fediverse from being dictated by a single software's whims. So that's a big plus there. Federation issues with kbin/mbin/azorius/other lesser used instance software will inevitably happen as people only test against the largest player in the field (in the ""threadiverse"" that's Lemmy, in the microblogging fedi that's Mastodon). So simply by not picking the largest you're, even if in a small way, helping not only mbin but all the lesser used fedi software as a whole.
Your own local communities being "dead" mainly boils down to communities themselves having a network effect around them where the largest one keeps growing larger as everyone focuses on it. And the largest communities are usually on lemmy.world (or occasionally other Lemmy instances). There isn't that much you can do there.
In my experience, it's always the smaller software that innovate. The same is true in the microblogging fedi (emoji reactions, quote posts, markdown, nomadic identity, reply permissions) just as it's true in the ""threadiverse"" (combining communities together, the ability to follow people, polls apparently (?)).
So really, don't worry about the size of your own instance's communities. As long as you trust your instance's staff to keep you safe there's no real reason not to get on a smaller instance, or on different software. Especially on here, where "discoverability" is not as much of an issue as it is in the microblogging fedi.
Great arguments, thank you!
This is exactly why I chose Mbin: to help diversify Threadiverse software.
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Better UI & UX. As long as federation works it does not matter whether they are Lemmy communities or mbin magazines. So, why use Lemmy when you can make use of the same communities on mbin?
At least earlier there have been quite a few problems with federation not working between KBin and Lemmy, posts and comments not syncing. It does seem better now but at the same time it's hard to know if you're missing a few comments or threads or whatnot.
A lot of the major federation issues in kbin were already fixed on mbin. Also, there were at least two major federation issues caused by Lemmy updates, which had nothing to do with kbin nor mbin and affected Lemmy instances accordingly as well. Of course, new issues can arise, but that also goes for Lemmy, or even just ActivityPub in general. But overall federation seems to be working fairly well right now.
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More options is better
If those options are functional, otherwise focus on making some of them functional.
There is definitely a LOT of half ass activity pub projects floating around. Everyone wants to start a new thing, but few people want to mature and maintain something someone else started.
We need more people doing the latter. We don’t need another half-finished client. We have those in spades.
I prefer being on instances with fewer users anyway - it feels a bit more personal. So more users on the larger Lemmy instances is not really an argument in my book.
I like the user experience on Lemmy and Mbin more. Another thing I like about Mbin is being able to boost posts and interact with the greater Fediverse more.
I like the performance of PieFed. It also works without JavaScript, which is nice some times.
What I like about this place is that we can all be on different platforms if we want to - there's no such thing as there not being enough people around to support all the platforms, as they're not competing for users. I'm happy whatever platform the people I interact with use - the important thing is that I can interact with them. :)
Thank you for mentioning Pie Fed, I neverd heard of it until now, but looks great. Clean code, intro video for developers, db structure exolained. Really friendly for new contributors, quite refreshing.
I really like the user experience as well, and @[email protected] is great at including the community in its development and keeping an open dialogue. It's a great project.
What ultimately caused kbin to shut down?
The dev had medical issues, and went offline for months. Lack of maintenance caused the site to break.
At risk of answering a question with a question... Is there a drawback to using mbin? Are there certain ways that it makes interacting with Lemmy awkward or difficult, or is it essentially just another interface? There are lots of frontends for the threadiverse - Lemmy UI is just one.
I know that mbin has additional features on the backend, but is there something you are missing out on?
Just to be clear, mbin is not just another frontend but a completely different software (including the backend side of it). Like Lemmy it uses activitypub to communicate with Lemmy but also with Mastodon.
https://github.com/MbinOrg/mbin There's a few different instance lists at the bottom if you want to browse around and check the settings and stuff.
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For me it's the UI thing. It may be the borderless timeline or the colorful info line - I struggle to focus on the title when browsing with lemmy.
I have been on and off lemmy lately, kbin has been shutdown?!!!
The head dev just kinda peaces out from time to time. Supposedly, he's got a lot going on in his personal life, and he probably really does, but he's also unwilling to hand over the reins or communicate or share, so the main instance just kinda died.
I remember he already had some beef with mbin so I'm unfortunately not too surprised by that. He wanted to stay in control but could not manage it alone either so ultimately it was an inevitable outcome.
TIL Kbin died.
the interface to all the exact same content, as you point out, is better.
why would i use an incredibly shitty interface that almost requires the use of an app, when i can access 100% of lemmy from mbin?
this whole 'lemmy-centric' view you have of the fediverse is archaic. you need to think bigger.
the whole point of the fediverse is access to all the content from your interface of choice... and youre asking 'why choose the better interface?'
The approach could be to use the lemmy server software and a custom UI, not a whole new server-side project like kbin/mbin.
Examples:
I love the front-ends as well but it feels like every Lemmy update breaks something there. Alexandrite still hasn't updated to 0.19.5 (since most instances are still on 0.19.3 due to image caching issues), and upvotes/downvotes still don't show up in my instance.
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Everything you listed is opinions and he is asking for actual reasons to use it.
To op:
There is no benefit to either. Test out a few frontends and choose the one you like the most. The differences are minimal.
this whole ‘lemmy-centric’ view you have of the fediverse is archaic.
More like narrow, but we see that all over. Mastodon users think microblogging is the end-all, be-all of the fediverse, even ignoring the loads of other, similar server software in that sector. Lemmy users talk about the fediverse as if it's only community-based forums.
In the meantime I guess, say, Peertube users are over in the other end of the room scratching their heads.
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It's much easier to follow people from e.g. mastodon from here than I remember it being on lemmy.
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Looks like Lemmy is the way to go. I really like how well it works.
Apropos of nothing, I'd like to see a mod done to the fediverse... Each user keeps their own info pod, and fedi sites can use that to populate profiles.
Migration is the largest hurdle in the fedi for users, instances change/shut down/federate with Meta without warning, etc.
Would be great to have one's info on one's own drives, go to other mastodon site that didn't e.g. manipulate its users into being on Meta and just plug in.
Images could also be stored this way, so copyright and provenance is straightforward. When user moves, so does all that.
Then a lemmy, (x)bin, piefed instance becomes just a place to park and not a captive zoo.
I think that the fediverse should offer a compelling improvement over commercial SM,: For me self-custody and easy migration are the things.
When I started, I picked Beehaw on lemmy. I hated the autorefresh and some other settings (around language IIRC, but it's been a while) not saving and/or not working. I went to kbin as a result. I know lemmy no longer autorefreshes in newer versions, but I just got used to the layout and feel of mbin.
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