this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2024

764 points (99.9% liked)

Linux

47545 readers

610 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
No misinformation
No NSFW content
No hate speech, bigotry, etc

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

764

Valve Engineer Mike Blumenkrantz Hoping To Accelerate Wayland Protocol Development (www.phoronix.com)

submitted 1 week ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

150 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 153 points 1 week ago (18 children)

I love how people are complaining about Wayland not being ready or being unstable (whatever that even means, because it's a protocol), while it's the default on both GNOME and Plasma now, which combined probably run on more than 50% of Linux desktops these days.

And not only that, but Cinnamon, Xfce and others want to follow, so very clearly people who know a fair bit about desktops seem to disagree with Wayland being "not ready".

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago

Wayland is ready, 'nobody' else is ready to use Wayland. And by nobody, I mean any software packages that are doing anything at all out of the ordinary. Text expanders are a hot mess, remote control apps or dodgy, OBS screen capture is dodgy. We're still playing catch up, support for Wayland in applications is honestly quite lacking.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

What does Xfce call itself if it starts supporting Wayland? Wfce?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Ironically enough just 2 days ago I posted this https://lemmy.ml/post/20691536/13906950 namely how the 1st thing I do after installing NVIDIA drivers on Debian is disabling Wayland to rely on X11 simply because it doesn't work.

Sadly that's relevant here precisely because if we are talking about Valve it's about gaming, if it's about gaming one simply can't ignore the state of NVIDIA drivers.

So... it might run on 50% on Linux desktops but on mine, which I also game on, it never worked once I had drivers for gaming installed. Consequently I understand "how people are complaining" because that's exactly my experience.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

That’s NVIDIA’s fault for refusing to adopt the agreed upon methods for rendering graphics on Linux. They tried to force EGLStreams on everybody for almost a decade while knowing GBM was better.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Absolutely, I'm not blaming any Wayland implementation about this, just giving my current situation as an example.

I do so because I imagine it's a popular setup (according to https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-vs-nvidia-which-more-popular-linux based on ProtonDB data, more than 60% Linux gamers had an NVIDIA GPU) and thus might prevent adoption.

I hope NVIDIA will fix that. Maybe a push from Valve would help.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

Yeah. Unfortunately most consumers buy NVIDIA, even though they only care about the enterprise sector.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I mean I'm on wayland and nvidia works fine

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

Same here and with an Optimus configuration ( NVIDIA + Intel GPU ). Work flawlessly on my Fedora.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Great, can you clarify your setup then? I might be able to learn from it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

Just base endeavour OS with nvidia drivers, maybe they would have information on it

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

I just yesterday tried Wayland under Arch with a 1070 after a long time. Single WQHD monitor though. Although X11 is really performant, Wayland was more smooth regarding KDE desktop effects. Witcher 3 (via Heroic) showed fewer microstutters and I will try some more proton games and other applications over the weekend.

I recently had to downgrade nvidia drivers from 560 to 550 because wakeup from sleep and hibernate would coredump. I read that this is fixed with 560 but only under Wayland. The developers definitely progressed on the nvidia front.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

That I can understand, however I want to piont out that this is an Nvidia problem entirely. Wayland works perfectly fine under 2/3 hardware vendors.

Luckily, they finally open-sourced their shit so going forward, this will probably change. But chances are only from the 2000 series on, so it might take an upgrade for many folks...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago

Agreed, cf https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-vs-nvidia-which-more-popular-linux and I do hope to have the choice soon.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I daily drive Wayland and I just have to ask, why is the clipboard and associated tooling so much worse‽ I just want input leap and neovim to both be able to properly read from and write to my clipboard. Input leap never can, and neovim has like a 50% shot at doing what I expect. Also I understand we're moving away from x11 in general but why is there no replacement for x11 forwarding over ssh?? I know I'm a niche user, but it drives me crazy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

why is there no replacement for x11 forwarding over ssh??

There kind of is. The project you're looking for is waypipe.

Knowing how these things tend to go, I predict you'll try to use it for your use case and it just won't work for whatever stupid reason. But I successfully used it to tunnel an app from my Debian machine at home to a Windows machine under WSL.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago

It's just that there are lots of stuff that don't really work (out of the box) with Wayland systems, an example being getting an IME with ibus/fcitx5 to work in browsers.

[–] [email protected] 80 points 1 week ago (1 children)

When people say its not ready, it's normally some specific use case that worked in X11. So, they're not wrong, but not right either.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 58 points 1 week ago

Wayland was subject to "first mover disadvantage" for a long time. Why be the first to switch and have to solve all the problems? Instead be last and everyone else will do the hard work for you.

But without big players moving to it those issues never get fixed. And users rightly should not be forced to migrate to a broken system that isn't ready. People just want a system that works right?

Eventually someone had to decide it was 'good enough' and try an industry wide push to move away from a hybrid approach that wastes developer time and confuses users.

load more comments (11 replies)

[–] [email protected] 108 points 1 week ago

Just please get us proper color management. Creators need accuracy & HDR is still a mess.

[–] [email protected] 105 points 1 week ago (3 children)

They could start by making the Steam client be able to run in native Wayland

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] [email protected] 90 points 1 week ago (29 children)

I love wayland. I'm 100% on it since the KDE 6.0 Beta end of 2023. Back then i wanted to try the HDR of my new monitor. I can't remember the last time I had a problem of any kind or thought “That worked under X”.

Multi-Monitor setup with different resolutions and refresh-rates. wayland does not care. it just works. And this is to a big part a gaming machine btw.