Naïve/entitled people fail to grasp the concept of compromise.
this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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Exactly whatbwas the compromise? The entire genocide/atrocity has occured om herself and Biden's watch. She then failed to disance herself from the policy and did not take a position that aligned with people concerned about supporting a genocide.
Is Trump worse on this topic? Almost certainly.
Entitled people are the ones that felt they could speak over the valid concerns of the public because "I am the lesser of two evils so you have to vote for me." Turned out well, the US continues its fownward trajectory and to be an embarrassment all because of...supporting a genocide. It wasnt even a difficult one, a remedial foreign policy issue fucked Kamala and she can have her shame for it.
The entitled people are those who insist the conscientious objectors should have put their concerns aside.
Is genocide not too far to compromise on? Or is it less of an issue because it’s a genocide of Arabs?
Which do you choose: genocide or WORSE genocide? You have to pick one. Not picking either gets you the latter by default. Make a choice.
My own argument to these people has been that I'd prefer they go out and cast their (wasted) votes for a third party, rather than simply stay home. A lot of Lemmy disagrees with me on that, focusing on the (true) realization that their third parties won't get elected.
In this election's current aftermath, much of the blame has been stating that voters were just lazy or unmotivated. The only thing this message encourages is to repeat more rallies, make more promises by demographics and region so people know to get out and vote.
If you vote third party, it sends a message that you are motivated to vote, but you are not pleased with the current messages of the party. That results in a very different change of action.
Unfortunately, this whole practice is extremely long-term-focused. Many people in this election have been desperate for short-term solutions, like the Ukraine/Gaza wars. Ideally, this kind of reaction would have started in 2016/2020 - but third-party votes have been miniscule in those elections too.
I think some people have explained it decently, but as someone who did not vote for Harris, I have a simple explanation:
I do not want the Democratic party to think it's Ok to be slightly better than Trump.
If I'm going to be honest, trans rights and immigration are minor issues compared to inequality and war in Gaza.
The Dems can be better, but they choose not to. Me voting for them tells them that's acceptable, but it's not. I supported third party in 2024, and I will continue to do so until the Democrats get serious reform.
(For those who think it would be "less bad" with Harris, that's the problem. I don't care for "less bad" when the duopoly got us here regardless. Represent the people.)
I like your reasoning. I'm a libertarian myself, so I get it.
But I held my nose and voted Democrat the last two Presidential elections because I think Trump is a uniquely dangerous person. I hate the "this time is different" argument, but I actually think it applied this time.
Thanks for enabling Trump you ginormous ass hat. I will remember your entitled self righteous indignation when Ukraine falls. When Trump talks about eradicating the Palestinian people. And when Russia starts taking small bites of NATO countries, while Trump refuses to respond to article 5 requests.
Sending a message to the democratic party was something you could have done before the election. By getting involved. But noooo let's send the message by handing the US to a fascist and convicted felon, that's far easier.
Edit: I just saw the .ml now. Good one tankie, you got me all riled up. I believe you can now collect a kopek from your boss for your trouble.
You can disagree with that guy. That's fine. But you need to understand that your attitude mirrors the attitude of the democratic party, and it literally just cost them the election.
Ignore the people who want change, assuming they'll vote for you anyway is a great way to get them to vote for someone else.
Reform or fail.
To quote a user from another thread:
Theyre not the ones that need to learn. Voters need to learn DNC is a bunch of wealthy moderates grifting voters.
because americans see voting the same as buying and endorsing a thing which is objectively wrong.
Not buying a product hurts the manufacturer.
Not voting does jack shit. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
America has powerful Karen/Kyle energy where people overreact to a slight flaw in service and this argument is the Karen/Kyle Tantrum argument over genuinely bad policies supported by Harris. They think if they take a fit this election they will be in a better spot next election. The reality is that more poeple will be homeless and out of reach. The media will be in worse shape.
Voting is always a trolley problem.
But overall I don't think that's the biggest group of people. The majority of people that didn't vote I think were tuned out of the election because of ongoing failures.
It starts with fury. Everything is beyond messed up over there.
Add in: anger funnels focus. Tunnel vision. It almost feels morally wrong to think of another thing. Anger helps you in a physical fight, so this makes sense. Also, ordering lunch while your neighbor's house burns down is kinda dickish.
Add in: first past the post voting. This is the big clincher. It forces two party systems mathematically, and most people understandably haven't heard why.
Factoring in the information in that video, you realize your choice really is Harris or Trump. Third choices get transformed into a vote for the candidate you dislike the most. So you take the best option.
Take away the knowledge of first past the post, and you have every reason to think that third parties will work if you all just had some spine and imagination, god damnit. You resolve not to let yourself be one of the ones who sat by silently while horrible things happen!
Cast protest vote thinking it makes you one of the people who actually helped, not realizing first past the post transforms that vote into a vote for trump, and everybody keeps fighting instead of watching that video and letting the facts it points out inform what they do.
The arguments are as stupid as you guessed.
These are naive emotional people who are dumb as fuck. I know so many in my life and it's like arguying with a brick wall.
Children still believe we live in a black and white world, democrats are in power now, genocide is happening, they will not vote for them. The concept that both will finance the genocide but another will be much worse is not something they can understand.
You have others that want to intentionally punish democrats for not doing anything. Great in the meantime, Trump will provide a full carte blanche to Nettanyahu in the middle east, he will continue what he's doing, annex everything without any limits. They were partying in Israel after Trump won.
A third group wants the system to break down because they think if you're a post collapse society, they will be able to build their utopia.
Yes as dumb idiots living in la la land.
They would rather accelerate genocide than admit they're wrong. It's disgusting
Then work to change it. Your voting system is broken and makes millions feel disenfranchised. People should be able to vote their conscience without worrying about stupid political games.
I've criticized then for their voting behavior as well - that if they want outcomes aligned to their values that dictates a particular voting strategy.
But you don't get to blame them for the outcome. That's on the broken system, and the failure of the losing party to appeal to them.
To start, we have to understand that the genocide of Palestine started before the October 7th attacks. Israel's rampant illegal settlements in the Gaza strip may have been the final straw that provoked Hamas to make a move, but Palestinians have been abused, forced into ghettos, and murdered by private citizens for decades. All of this, and nobody in the West ever really batted an eye at the suffering except for a handful of informed leftists.
If Harris had won, the most likely outcome is that the immediate conflict would eventually be paused, just like it paused after the second intifadas. No land would be returned, no settlements removed, but Hamas' forces would be decimated to the point they could not fight back and Israel would return to their quiet slow genocide until the stars align to renew their attack once more.
Now that Trump has won, the most likely outcome is...that the immediate conflict will eventually pause, just like it paused after the second intifadas. Israel isn't an island, if they ramp up their aggression ever further, eventually other parts of the world will push for sanctions on Israel. A Trump win doesn't suddenly give Israel carte blanch to build the gas chambers, they still have to pay lip service to international law. Israel will inflict a grievous wound on Hamas, deep enough that it will take another generation before conflict resumes, and go back to expanding their settlements.
This genocide has been happening since before I was born, and multiple Democrat presidents have had an opportunity to say something or work towards curbing Israeli aggression. They've all vaguely promised to work towards a two-state solution, knowing that the current two states are what they want. If Kamala Harris couldn't even call it a genocide, then she was no different, and it would be foolish to think she would actually take any steps towards meaningfully stopping Israel.
So, you’re counting on Trump, known for racist, anti-Muslim rhetoric, will do no different than Harris? Ridiculous. Trump doesn’t care, and it’s clear Bibi doesn’t care.
Also, that doesn’t tell me how that protest vote does anything. If the result is the same, then at least go for the person that won’t destroy even more lives.
I'm not counting on Trump for anything. I'm expecting other member states of the UN and especially the EU to act as the actual hard line for Israel, as they have for the past five decades. It's already starting to happen, and once sanctions are in place Bibi will finally start to become unpopular and can finally be replaced.
It'd be very nice if those sanctions started with the U.S., but it was never going to happen under either party. The number of lives lost will be the same. The U.S. has never been what has stopped Israel, it has always been global perception.
I’m betting he helps complete the genocide. And I no longer have any sympathy for it.
Well, iirc, trump mentioned something about wiping the Palestinians out himself (or something along those lines, I halfway forgot as trump says a lot of shit) so let's just say that whatever the result it, it won't be good for the Palestinians.
Also remember that trump is now surrounded by a religious extremists cult who is betting on Jesus coming back in Jerusalem, and they've been working for 4 years to prepare for Trump's return and ehat they can do with a king with nukes
Talking about nukes, so this extremists cult is also betting on the world ending to make Jesus return sooo, yeah, nothing to see here.
Let's see, what other ways will this destroy the world? Oh yeah, Ukraine will be fucked too, trump will just force it to surrender either now, or negotiate "peace" after which Russia either just goes on or zelenski falls out of a window. with that done, the Baltics will be next for putin, don't doubt it. Poland and Czech Republic may follow. What else? Taiwan will be fucked now too so wars all over, yeeeiii.
What other fin can we expect? Climate change is a hoax too, right? Multiple point of no return came and went and shits about to get a lot worse a lot faster
Fuck America, and fuck the majority of Americans, you have ended the world. That basically includes anyone who didn't vote for Harris.
Israel will inflict a grievous wound on Hamas, deep enough that it will take another generation before conflict resumes, and go back to expanding their settlements.
Expanding settlements is continuing the violent conflict, just not as open warfare.
Because the standard for Democrats is perfectionism, but the standard for Republicans is "That's just Trump being Trump."
In other words, they didn't think it through, they got suckered by propaganda.
Imagine thinking "stop committing a genocide" is perfection.
Liberals are amazing creatures.
trump will be 100x worse.
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Don't worry. Trump won. You'll hear a whole lot less about Gaza and genocide now.
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