this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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No such thing. Ask away!

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And I'm being serious. I feel like there might be an argument there, I just don't understand it. Can someone please "steelman" that argument for me?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 30 minutes ago

I think this was just one issue of many that led to her loss, but to answer your question, it's somewhat simple:

There are 2 viable options. Voting for one shows support for their platform. But if the 2 options stand together on an important issue and the voter is on the other side of it, the voter cannot support their stance by voting for either option. Voting for either would only serve to erase their opinion which is counter-productive.

If a voter's opinions cannot be expressed by voting for either option, then it leaves one final recourse to be heard: To not vote for either of them.

This shows up as a drop in turnout. A substantially poor turnout means that there are voters that can be picked up next cycle if either party cares to cater to them. If any parties do this, then the non-voters have successfully exerted influence.

Maybe you disagree that this is a logical strategy but consider this:

Some citizens tried this and lo and behold, their voices were heard. The whole internet is up in arms! All that remains now is to see whether the politicians listen.

They probably won't, but we wouldn't even be having this discussion if people turned out to vote against their beliefs on the matter. Which means that, on this issue, the strategy of withholding votes has already been more successful than any outcome that could be arrived at through voting (because, again, those outcomes would only serve to silence these potential voters).

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 hours ago

My own argument to these people has been that I'd prefer they go out and cast their (wasted) votes for a third party, rather than simply stay home. A lot of Lemmy disagrees with me on that, focusing on the (true) realization that their third parties won't get elected.

In this election's current aftermath, much of the blame has been stating that voters were just lazy or unmotivated. The only thing this message encourages is to repeat more rallies, make more promises by demographics and region so people know to get out and vote.

If you vote third party, it sends a message that you are motivated to vote, but you are not pleased with the current messages of the party. That results in a very different change of action.

Unfortunately, this whole practice is extremely long-term-focused. Many people in this election have been desperate for short-term solutions, like the Ukraine/Gaza wars. Ideally, this kind of reaction would have started in 2016/2020 - but third-party votes have been miniscule in those elections too.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (9 children)

I think some people have explained it decently, but as someone who did not vote for Harris, I have a simple explanation:

I do not want the Democratic party to think it's Ok to be slightly better than Trump.


If I'm going to be honest, trans rights and immigration are minor issues compared to inequality and war in Gaza.

The Dems can be better, but they choose not to. Me voting for Dems signals that what Dems are doing is acceptable, but it's not. I supported third party in 2024, and I will continue to do so until the Democrats get serious reform.

(For those who think it would be "less bad" with Harris, that's the problem. I don't care for "less bad" when the duopoly got us here regardless. Represent the people.)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 minutes ago

Good for you, you helped get Trump elected! 👍

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

For the love of all that is holy, do not assume that they will figure out everything you just typed above from the fact that you didn't vote for them.

I don't actually agree with your choice, but I do agree with this:

The Dems can be better, but they choose not to.

So please, if you have convinced yourself that withholding one vote out of tens of millions will somehow send them the message you are trying to send, please also convince yourself that it would be even more effective to drop them a line and let them know how you feel in explicit detail.

https://democrats.org/contact-us/

Same message for everyone else who chose a protest vote on Tuesday. It's all great to feel like you did the right thing, but maybe now question whether your message will actually be received, and be sure that it does. Otherwise you put Trump in for literally nothing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

So, instead of selecting the better of two bad options (according to you), you chose the worse of two bad options. And that's supposed to make some sort of point?

Do I shoot myself in the foot or the head? The head, that'll show em!

X to doubt.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 44 minutes ago* (last edited 42 minutes ago)

I voted for the Unity party largely to make this point. I live in Colorado. That's "shooting myself in the head"?

I heard someone say "Well what if so many voters vote third party that they lose the state?" If the Dems lose Colorado...if Colorado is even close...do you really think they have a path to 270?

I respect the right of people in swing states to vote their conscience as well, but that's obviously a different consideration. But the vitriol a lot of Dems have without even asking where someone lives is just... unhelpful.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I like your reasoning. I'm a libertarian myself, so I get it.

But I held my nose and voted Democrat the last two Presidential elections because I think Trump is a uniquely dangerous person. I hate the "this time is different" argument, but I actually think it applied this time.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 26 minutes ago

That's fair and I respect your decision.

I was excited about Obama. For whatever reason I thought he'd be a lot more progressive than he ended up being.

I phone banked for Clinton. Was never a fan, but I agree that Trump was/is uniquely dangerous.

I voted for Biden. He was explicitly picked to be the conservative balance to the liberal firebrand, Obama (😬), but hey vote Blue no matter who, right?

The counterpoint to this thinking, for me: Where does this end? Do I stick it out until the next "unimportant" Presidential election? At what point am I just enabling the Dems to run rightward to pick up imaginary centrist Republicans while ignoring the left and the working class?

I doubt the DNC will learn their lesson from this election. I hoped they'd learn from a win, but I pray they take this loss to heart. The idea that Republicans somehow convinced people that they're the party of unions and the working class is laughable, but if they could do that, that says Dems aren't making the difference in people's lives that they should be.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

To quote a user from another thread:

Theyre not the ones that need to learn. Voters need to learn DNC is a bunch of wealthy moderates grifting voters.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 hours ago (7 children)

Naïve/entitled people fail to grasp the concept of compromise.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 hours ago

Exactly whatbwas the compromise? The entire genocide/atrocity has occured om herself and Biden's watch. She then failed to disance herself from the policy and did not take a position that aligned with people concerned about supporting a genocide.

Is Trump worse on this topic? Almost certainly.

Entitled people are the ones that felt they could speak over the valid concerns of the public because "I am the lesser of two evils so you have to vote for me." Turned out well, the US continues its fownward trajectory and to be an embarrassment all because of...supporting a genocide. It wasnt even a difficult one, a remedial foreign policy issue fucked Kamala and she can have her shame for it.

The entitled people are those who insist the conscientious objectors should have put their concerns aside.

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