this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2023
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As far as I see that instance is a far-right cess pool. Everything I've got from that instance were low-quality transphobic "news articles".

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Nazis aren't welcome here, best they learn that now rather than through a long process of being told by everyone else here to fuck off.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What's your definition of a Nazi? A member of a national socialist party? I want to understand what is being banned before it's banned.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My criteria for what makes "a Nazi" are something like this.

  1. A belief that race is an immutable genetic concept, that reproducing outside one's race is inherently wrong, and that some races are inherently superior to others; most often the superior groups are "white", while the "inferior" groups include Africans, Jews and travelling people

  2. Reverence for cultural "tradition", real or imagined, with any departure from these traditions classified as "degenerate" and dangerous to society. For example, a belief that avant-garde art is immoral and without value because it doesn't root itself in what are popularly perceived to be the artistic traditions of "the west", a neat line from Greek marble statues to Wagner.

  3. Hatred of diversity, seeing it as a plague that rots a society. For example, the belief that women are unfit to hold a social position outside of motherhood, that non-heterosexual sexualities are "degenerate", that allowing people from another race to exist in your race's society inevitably leads to that society's destruction, that gender as a concept is a "mental illness" because only two biological sexes exist and each biological sex has a set-in-stone role demanding a certain presentation and certain values, that societies which follow one religion must not allow followers of another religion to exist within it.

  4. Heavy use of absolutism. Everything is either wholly good or wholly bad. Nothing can be a mix of good and bad, or neutral. And everything is a matter of utmost urgency. Anything that is "bad" is an existential threat to all that is "good" and must be immediately and utterly annihilated.

  5. An authoritarian outlook. Anything opposed by a Nazi must be forbidden by the full force of the law. There is no space for differences of opinion, or a nuanced debate, or reviewing the facts. If they oppose something, whether it's big or small - the use of marijuana, reformative justice programs, abortion, media with female protagonists - it must be banned under pain of death.

  6. Violence. To a Nazi, the use of violence isn't an escalation, but the norm. They have no qualms about beating people to death simply for espousing an opposing view, or even just for existing if some aspect of their existence offends their beliefs. Likewise, their rhetoric often alludes to the indiscriminate or nonchalant, even gleeful use of deadly force - "physical removal", "showers", etc.

  7. Shameless hypocrisy. The people who say "facts not feelings" as a rebuttal are often the same people whose beliefs are motivated almost entirely by feelings, and will happily mock others for trying to use evidence in their arguments instead of simply saying "it's common sense". They will shame someone for being rude and aggressive while also calling them the N word and telling them that on "the day of the rope", they'll be among the dead.

  8. Veneration of strong leaders and mocking of "weakness". Consensus-builders are seen as spineless "cucks", while people who enforce their every arbitrary whim with total force are held up as "based" exemplars of good leadership and models to be emulated. People who are comfortably being themselves in ways that aren't conventionally masculine are addressed with slurs and told to kill themselves while ignorant, bullying asshats are applauded for "rustling jimmies".

You can meet all of these criteria without being a member of a National-Socialist party, or even identifying as a Nazi, but if you do meet most or all of them, your ideology can be pretty confidently described as Nazi-like.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This seems pretty well thought out.

I'm a little confused by: "A belief that race is an immutable genetic concept". If I was born in Spain and my whole family has lived there for centuries, am I not Spanish / a Spaniard?

I'd agree that saying things like "all Spaniards are terrible at math" is racist, but I don't see how one's race is mutable in this fashion.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

They may be talking about ethnicity vs race? Google says in basic terms, race describes physical traits, and ethnicity refers to cultural identification. Race may also be identified as something you inherit, whereas ethnicity is something you learn.

So ethnicity is certainly mutable

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m a little confused by: “A belief that race is an immutable genetic concept”. If I was born in Spain and my whole family has lived there for centuries, am I not Spanish / a Spaniard?

Spanish would be a good description of your ethnic background in that situation, but there are quite a number of ethnic identities within Spain as well - the Basque, Galicians and Catalans, just to name a few. "Spanish" isn't a racial monolith. There would be plenty of people whose ethnic background looks quite different to yours but who are no less Spanish.

What I mean in that statement is that Nazis believe that "race" - as in "Germanic", "Hispanic", "Black" (they tend to lump all sub-Saharan Africans together), "Middle Eastern" - is a useful way of classifying people, and that substantial differences in things like intelligence and physiology between humans are primarily the result of these categorisations.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Spanish would be a good description of your ethnic background in that situation, but there are quite a number of ethnic identities within Spain as well - the Basque, Galicians and Catalans, just to name a few. “Spanish” isn’t a racial monolith. There would be plenty of people whose ethnic background looks quite different to yours but who are no less Spanish.

But none of that is mutable, is it?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Your DNA isn't going to change, but those ethnic groups are transient things rather than an inherent feature of reality. An ethnic group is ultimately a relative thing. Some "African-American" people might be genetically closer to the African people from whom their ancestors came than the other ethnic groups living in America, but they're not simply "African" - they are a separate diaspora. Those ethnic groups change their makeups over time.

It's not like, say, elements. 1,000 years from now, the average genetic makeup of any given ethnic group will be observably different from how it is today, but a Hydrogen atom will still be defined in exactly the same way as now. Nazis believe that races are a concrete, reified structure that doesn't shift over time - it is a "pure" and "natural" state that becomes degraded and diluted by what they term miscegenation, rather than a fuzzy construct that changes over time.

Let's say you were born in Spain and your whole family has lived there for centuries, but your family are black - say, some of your ancestors arrived from North Africa long ago. I would still call you Spanish, but a Nazi would call you African (or more likely some kind of slur). They care about the colour of your skin more than your actual background. Likewise, no matter how many generations your family has lived in a country or how well they pass, Nazis assert that if any of your ancestors was a Jew, you are also a Jew, and that as a Jew, you are inherently inferior to non-Jews and consequently a racial contaminant.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

After a while of thinking and reviewing, I have come to the conclusion to defederate as requested. If they correct course, I'll happily re-review them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Looks like this is really a right wing/fake/hate news instance. No love is lost defederating them.

So: Yes, please!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Just block their domain in your instance.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

How? I can only block communities, but not a whole instance. That's the core of the problem. It's not just **one ** toxic community that we could easily block, it's pretty much the entire server.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Why vote? Isn't that the decision for the instance admins to make? (And also their job?)

Just ping them and also flag offending posts.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So the admins can make a better decision by knowing what their community thinks.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Just directly write them a message. I don't think it needs a vote by the majority of the community to exclude some right wing crypto bros who like transphobia etc

Also if you focus your energy here instead of notifying an admin, they might not read it and you kinda did the opposite of what you intended. Focus your energy here only if the admins and moderation don't do their job properly.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bigotry should be banned, and removed from this instance. That means not allowing bigotry on our instance. That means defederating from less clever wannabe 4chans, and less moderated The_D replacements.

They can enjoy their shithole federation.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Honestly 4chan is much better than some of these instances.

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