I always viewed Kaioken as a martial arts technique. Like breathing helps martial artists strike harder. In the same breath Kaioken uses the user's energy up at a much higher pace like breathing to perform a strike would. I think Kaioken though flashy, still respects the classic Dragon Ball, martial arts and techniques are important line of thinking. Even to the point one of the core themes of that arc is hard work(Goku learning new techniques) trumps natural born talent(Vegeta). But after that arc martial arts and techniques mean very little it becomes what colour is your hair with no drawbacks and the original message is lost...
this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
45 points (85.7% liked)
Asklemmy
43336 readers
830 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy π
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
I think at least in the anime, kaioken serves the exact same purpose as forms of just granting Goku a massive power boost to overcome a strong enemy and much like forms is more or less forgotten about once a newer shinier one comes around (until ssb kaioken much later on anyway)
To each there own but Kaioken didn't defeat Vegeta and Gokeu basically went lol SS I win to Friesa... Though it was great in the moment.
I kind of liked Ultra-Instinct at the end of Super for this reason. It's not some transformation or unlocked racial boon. It's positioned as a genuine technique achieved by removing conscious thought from the equation and allowing each part of the trained body to react on its own. Yes, we're in the divine arc, and the gods try to position the technique as divine power, but the unique simplicity of how it functions brings us back to ground from the world of legendary transformations and cyber-biological enhancements. It fits in a martial arts anime, even if the series isn't quite that anymore.
I think the core theme of hard work doesn't just die it becomes the opposite and Goku is special. If you are anyone but Goku you are just the delaying tactic until he shows up.
Only person sorta following the old hard work theme is Tien as he seems to follow the be better than you were yesterday and don't worry about the people better than you mantra.
No, except for maybe the Trunks from the future arch, super sayian 2 was kinda new at the moment, but still already seen on the main series. (edit, I think on that arch Trunks doesn't get SS 2 but SS1. I don't remember well)
Dragon Ball has the curse of needed to introduce new forms and raise the power level in order to continue the story.
They get SS2 in the time chamber. I think there's 4 SS2s?
In cell arc only gohan achieves ssj2 and itβs while fighting perfect cell after he kills android 16.
In hyperbolic time chamber gohan and goku perfect the ssj form so it doesnβt use as much energy or not more than base form.
Trunks βdiscoversβ buff ssj1 form that is stronger but slower
Did they get a new form during the Android Saga?
The Super Sayian 2.
Was SS2 during android? Thought it was cell saga
Cell is the second half of the android saga.
Ah didn't realise they were counted as one
That was Cell saga, Gohans the first to get that form which he does against Cell. You get variations on the first Super Saiyan form which is Super Saiyan Second Grade and Third Grade, which are achieved by Vegeta and Trunks, but its still considered just Super Saiyan. Goku and Gohan achieve Super Saiyan Full Power, which is mastery over the base Super Saiyan form.
GT only has one new transformation and several arcs. In Super, I believe there is no new transformation in the first tournament arc? Unless you count the combination of Kaioken and Blue.
GT is pretty bad, not really done by Toriyama, and was written out as cannon. In the DB world it no longer exists.
That's a fair opinion to have since I believe even Toriyama said as much. However, in the end there is no such thing as a true canon - with the manga, anime and movies there are 3 different canons for Super alone. And personally speaking, they all suck just as much as GT did except for a few of the movies.
No that's true actually, wouldn't really count blue kaioken as a new form as it's just a new way of using existing stuff though again serves the same purpose to the story
Haven't seen GT yet so couldn't comment there though ssj4 is absolutely the coolest looking transformation
GT is absolutely a slog to sit through until the Baby arc. GTβs Pan is also the most annoying character in Dragonball history.
I disagree. Pan is the breath of fresh air the series needed and itβs a real disappointment we donβt see more of her.
Spoiler alerts, obviously:
None of DragonBall introduced new forms.
Beyond that it's a little more dicey on what you would call a new "form". A lot of archs had a power increase pre ssj1, but no form change. The radditz saga didn't have one. The vagita saga didn't have one, but the kio-ken burst move was implemented. The namek/Ginyu saga had no form changes but Goku became super strong while training under 100g gravity while going to Namek. The Dr.Gero saga had no new forms, but Vagita became a ssj1. Garlic Jr saga didn't have any but I wouldn't call that a major arch. It was more like filler. Ssj2 popped up at the start of the Bobbidy saga but flat lined there until the Buu saga. The otherworld tournament had no new ones.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
I think that depends on what you consider an arc. I would consider the entire time they're on namek the frieza saga
The android arc before cell is introduced, vegeta and trunks were shown to go SS but not SS2 until well into the cell arc
i guess the first z arc? it has kaioken but thats not a form its a technique