this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023

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Manchin the moderate? (lemmy.world)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

45 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I mean really, he’s a coal baron for crying out loud

all 46 comments

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[+] [email protected] 46 points 10 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Exactly. America has moved so far to the right that the “leftist” party is swarmed with people like Joe Manchin, and it’s presidential candidate is the author of the god awful crime bill that’s worked to imprison untold numbers of people unjustly and along racial lines disproportionate. And supports genocide. And censures it’s only Palestinian congresswoman for….pointing out the reality of what’s going on.

Lovely country. Lovely I tell you.

At least our national parks are nice.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Censures*

Sorry, but they are different.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Good catch on the typo; updated accordingly.

I didn’t say they’re the same parties. I said both right wing. The democrats are a right wing party. The republicans are…a right-er wing party determined to cosplay their way into abject fascism.

There is no true left wing party that is currently viable in America. That needs to change. The two party system is an abomination and it’s stranglehold on the country is both pathetic and infuriating.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Oh, I meant that censure and censor are different. I'm totally with you.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Oh, okay i understand now! Cheers mate!

[–] [email protected] 28 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Manchin is not moderate by any stretch. He is so blatantly beholden to his special interest money sources that he doesn't seem to have any political direction at all. He's a democrat by title who pretty much hangs out with the Republicans, and also votes with them. That's not moderate.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

He's a "moderate centrist" in the sense that he's basically the median senator. Which honestly says more about the Senate than it does about him or his politics.

He votes with Biden about 90% of the time, though. He's obstructed some big parts if the Democratic agenda, but if you'd rather have another Republican like Shelly Capito in his seat then you're nuts. At this point, the chance of replacing him with even a mainstream Democrat is basically nil. That whole state has swung very far right.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago (1 children)

When he voted the same as Democrats 70% of the time.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So right wing, got it.

[+] [email protected] -17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hurr hurr DNC isn't progressive enough. Move along.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

But it isn't and I must vote for them to prevent the US from becoming A Handmaid's Tale. 😭

[+] [email protected] -20 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

Whenever someone like you speaks out it's abundantly clear that none of you will understand that people don't vote more progressive because they don't agree with your ideas. You'll keep on pushing extremists views and continue with rhetoric that makes the average voters eyes roll so far back into their head they might become unstable and fall over backwards.

Pragmatic politics are dead replaced by ideology and a refusal to meet in the middle.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I can't imagine being so braindead as to blame progressives for not meeting in the middle with literal anti democratic christo-fascists.

You're right. It's actually just our fault that we want the country to not be a shithole.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The US Democrats are basically the conservative of any other EU countries. There are progressives among them but they are often fed to the wolves and sold as a nuisance by their own party. Think AOC and other justice dems.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The entirety of the rest of the western world is more left leaning than US politics. The Dems are center right in any other country. The only reason for that is decades and decades of capitalist propaganda programming the electorate. An electorate that when asked about specific issues is largely much more open to leftist solutions than the bought politicians they vote for.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

What a fascist troll. All that in response to me saying the DNC isn't progressive enough. You're actually unhinged dude. You don't know the first thing about my politics. Calm the hell down.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Yeah I think we should just block this guy.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Probably about the same time "centrist" became synonymous with "conservative apologist".

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Centrists haven't changed. The Liberal perception of them has changed. Largely because the right has gone so far fascist that it's pretty difficult to defend allowing them into office, even if you don't agree with the left on an issue or two.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So... the right has moved, and thus so has the "center", meaning "centrists" are further right? So... centrist means something different?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

The "centrists" that I know stand on the same ground they stood on 20 years ago. If we're talking about the ideologies then I feel that the right has moved further right, and the left further left, which would leave the centrists about smack dab in the same spot. If we're referring to actual political parties then the left has moved further right too. Biden is not a leftist. Any actual leftists get clobbered by the DNC.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Politics uses more buzz words than tech. Liberal, democrat, republican, moderate, progressive, etc. Usually just for headline effect, as they largely are misleading.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Just remember to call his "Left Virginia" and when it's natives get enraged, react with mild confusion. Gaslight the hell out of them lol

[+] [email protected] -25 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

Bout the same time Biden the Bastard became a "Hero of the Left."

[–] [email protected] 36 points 10 months ago (2 children)

What left wing people are you talking to? Nobody I know likes Biden. They just vote for him because the alternative is literally going to collapse democracy.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeah, Biden is literally the reason we have the current student debt crisis - he originally supported the bill that made it illegal to declare bankruptcy from loan debts in the early 2000s after supporting getting loans super easy back in the 70s.

More like “Hero of the Left Hook I Wanna Give Him”.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Robert Byrd was the longest serving senator. He was a leader of his local chapter of the KKK in his 20s, but left it when he got into politics.

He voted against the civil rights bill of 1965, but started supporting civil rights in the 70s and 80s.

When he died, the NAACP said:

"Senator Byrd reflects the transformative power of this nation," stated NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous. "Senator Byrd went from being an active member of the KKK to a being a stalwart supporter of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and many other pieces of seminal legislation that advanced the civil rights and liberties of our country.

Senator Byrd came to consistently support the NAACP civil rights agenda, doing well on the NAACP Annual Civil Rights Report Card. He stood with us on many issues of crucial importance to our members from the reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act, the historic health care legislation of 2010 and his support for the Hate Crimes Prevention legislation," stated Hilary O. Shelton, Director of the NAACP Washington Bureau and Senior Vice President for Advocacy and Policy. "Senator Byrd was a master of the Senate Rules, and helped strategize passage of legislation that helped millions of Americans. He will be sorely missed."

Byrd certainly wasn't perfect, but he wasn't Strom Thurmond, George Wallace or David Duke.

[+] [email protected] -7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I really doubt he just did a 180 on being a klan leader turned anti-civil rights politician. He was an opportunist who saw a chance to gain more support by supporting more progressive policies. It's good that he started supporting civil rights, but he and politicians like him will turn their backs on progressivism the moment it benefits them, which scares the shit out of me in times like this where conservatives are getting more radical and violent all the time.

Idk what the context for biden being with them is, but politicians take photos with all kinds of people though, even politicians on the other side of the aisle. It's part of the political game, and based on the picture alone I wouldn't judge him too hard just for having a picture with them

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago

"I see your evidence but I am going to ignore it because it does not support my internal narrative"

Is basically what you just said.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Byrd was a Democrat.

The Democratic party has always been an ideologically diverse big tent coalition. Before the civil rights bills, part of that coalition were the Dixiecrats - the traditional southern pro-segregation, pro-Jim Crow part of the Democrats.

Strom Thurmond, George Wallace and Byrd were originally all Dixiecrats.

Following the civil rights bill, the Dixiecrats stopped being a part of the Democratic coalition. When people talk about the party switch, that's what they're talking about. Strom Thurmond joined the Republican Party, George Wallace joined the newly formed American Independant party, and Byrd publically renounced the Dixiecrat platform and became a mainstream Democrat.

Byrd died in office, back in 2010, at the age of 92. We can't really say how much was an honest reconsideration of racism, and how much was just reading the political tea leaves and oppourtunism. But you can rest easy that the only kind of turning he can do anymore is metaphorically turning in his grave.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don't think anyone considers Biden the hero of the left, except for maybe dummy Republicans who can't understand that you can vote for a politician without worshipping them. Leftists know he's not a leftist. Hell, centrists know he's a corporatist.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Democrats believe they are they left as well. If you've never met a Blue MAGA then I envy you.