The thing that confuses me about this wonderful concept is how did the Tamarians ever get to the point of building wooden ships if they only spoke in meme and metaphor? How could they have created a culture that speaks only in references if their references couldn't happen without culture existing to make note of the referenced events?
this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
62 points (98.4% liked)
Star Trek
10468 readers
42 users here now
r/startrek: The Next Generation
Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...
Maybe a little slash fic.
New to Star Trek and wondering where to start?
Rules
1 Be constructive
All posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.
2 Be welcoming
It is important that everyone from newbies to OG Trekkers feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.
3 Be truthful
All posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.
4 Be nice
If a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.
5 Spoilers
Utilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episodes, as well as previews for upcoming episodes. There is no formal spoiler protection for episodes/films after they have been available for approximately one week.
6 Keep on-topic
All submissions must be directly about the Star Trek franchise (the shows, movies, books etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/quarks.
7 Meta
Questions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.
Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 05-23 | DSC 5x09 | "Lagrange Point" |
| 05-30 | DSC 5x10 | "Life, Itself" |
| 07-01 | PRO S2 | Index |
| 10-24 | LD 5x01 | TBA |
| 10-24 | LD 5x02 | TBA |
In Production
Lower Decks (2024-10-24)
Strange New Worlds (2025)
Section 31 (2025)
In Development
Untitled comedy series
Wondering where to stream a series? Check here.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I saw an amazing post on the alien site a while ago—I think it was in Daystrom, but I’m not sure—that suggested the Tamarians may have 2 or 3 different "modes" of speaking. This would explain both how their language’s function words exist and how children might acquire language.
I think this probably happened the other way round. They had a separate more traditional language until they struck out and discovered other civilizations that spoke other languages. An allegorical language that can be modified with context under observation would actually be a fairly good way to relate and then exchange languages using tamarian as sort of a Rosetta stone.
I assume that they didn't always speak that way, but as their language evolved it became gradually more dense with allusions, until they took over entirely.
Kermit, his head nodding in agreement
Bale, cut in counterpoint
Maybe they have a less flowery and a purely functional language for those situations.
When I first saw this episode of TNG, I thought that such a language was impossible. Without even thinking about how often I hear and use phrases that likely make zero sense to someone who doesn't know the same context as myself. Like dealing with someone who lies all too often, "they are the boy who cried wolf" gets used. Meaning, one of these days they are going to tell the truth but no one will believe them. Or saying, "we need to touch base" to someone who isn't familiar with baseball. Sometimes I understand the meaning of a phrase, like "the proof is in the pudding," without knowing what that phrase originally meant. I still wonder what pudding? every time I hear it. So, yes. I can believe the Tamarian language. Because context is important.
I don't think the Tamarian language as a whole is represented in the episode. I can't imagine "Temba, his arms wide"-ing a way to warp capabilities. I think of the Tamarian language shown as a universal shorthand for the Tamarians. Like their society has different languages, but the Tamarian we hear is the common language. That Tamarians specializing in a field of study have their own words and phrases, much like on Earth of today. For example, if I listen to a lecture on biochemistry, I wouldn't understand most of it because I don't speak (understand) biochemistry. I have no context.
I think the Tamarian language is fascinating, and possible.
I can’t imagine “Temba, his arms wide”-ing a way to warp capabilities.
There's a fan theory that they use a distinct music-based writing system for math and technology.
That sounds interesting. Do you have a link to that discussion? I don't know anything about music theory, but connecting it to the Tamarian language could be a fascinating read.
OK, I found the post from daytrom I remembered, which said the idea came from a beta canon story. So I checked the Memory-Beta page for the Tamarians and it says the idea comes from a short story called Friends with the Sparrows by Christopher Bennett. I haven't been able to find a copy of it online, though.
Thanks for finding these. I'll check them out.
I don't remember where, probably a post on /r/daystrominstitute
I'll take a look-see. Thanks for the heads up.
Like dealing with someone who lies all too often, “they are the boy who cried wolf” gets used. Meaning, one of these days they are going to tell the truth but no one will believe them.
Or, you know, that you should never tell the same lie twice.
There was an episode of The Magicians where Elliot and Margot used this to communicate while being spied upon. I immediately thought of this episode of Star Trek.
I haven't seen The Magicians, but I remember something similar happening in one of the Austin Powers movies that make me think of this episode. Austin was talking to his dad in I think English slang. Without the subtitles if you are not culturally familiar with what they were saying it just sounded like nonsense
I remember that. The Magicians was wild and I loved it.
The Magicians were one of those books where I hated most of the main characters but loved the series. The TV series was great even though they deviated from the books.
This was always my favorite episode of the series, just due to the novel concept of communication. Upon a rewatch years later, I realized the episode was just ahead of its time. I mean we always had phrases like this, but with the huge rise of memes in the last 20 years the amount of phrases like this has grown exponentially.
view more: next ›