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Western leaders must choose: Arm Ukraine or enable Putin's genocide (www.atlanticcouncil.org)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I feel the appeal to emotion can easily be brushed off as propaganda. What we really need to push is that we either arm them or they get desperate. And the last thing people want is a desperate nation with the power to blow up pipeliles (oil prices will double globaly) ohh and people forget ukrain has nuclear power plants and a bunch of old soviet engineers what do u think they gonna do if we stop supporting them? Give up or make nukes?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

To make nukes the key part is not the power plant, but the enriching of uranium. To the best of my knowledge Ukraine has no enrichment plants.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Whats used to power a nuclear reactor dummy.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Uranium for power plants normally has a 3-5% U235 contet, whereas weapons grade uranium has to be at least 20% U235 to build a somewhat realisitc nuke, but that would way a few hundred kg. So you usually go for above 80%.

Any dumb person knows that and the Ukranians are not that dumb.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The bomb doesnt need to be good all it needs to do is start ww3

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

It wouldn't be a bomb at those levels. That's the point they're trying to make. It would be more like a traditional bomb that would do nothing but destroy 1 tank and irradiate the area.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Conservatives will always choose genocide. Always.

Conservatives delight in in the harm of the vulnerable. You can see it in their humor, their media, how they treat animals. They are sadists.

Be careful in your dealings with a conservative. They do not value life the way normal people do.

[+] [email protected] -15 points 10 months ago (2 children)

While I agree that the entire world should support Ukraine in its struggle against Putin, the headline is a false dichotomy and disingenuous.

There are plenty of nations that stand with Ukraine without arming it for a variety of reasons. They may not be able to afford it, may not have the necessary weapons or simply have moral concerns about sending weapons. These nations are not enabling Putin.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 10 months ago (1 children)

or simply have moral concerns about sending weapons.

No, THAT one is just enabling Putin.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago

Yeah even Ireland sent troops to Ukraine to train them. It bothers me that we didn't send weapons but there is no moral ambiguity here.

A sovereign nation was invaded in an attempt to redraw borders and kill their democratically elected leader. Absolutely fuck that. Arm them to the teeth.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There’s such a thing as defensive weapons. Patriot missiles being the main one. The Baltic nations around Ukraine that have been giving them money and weapons are some of the poorest nations and they give what they can. Obviously countries shouldn’t bankrupt themselves for Ukraine, but giving can be done in other ways. If a country is really against sending arms they could send medical aid, monetary aid, and building/electrical grid aid. Countries giving nothing at all are enabling Putin and/or giving in to the idea of complacency like Russia wants.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I completely agree. I'm all for sending aid, but I'm saying that not sending weapons is not the equivalent of aiding Putin's genocide.

I think it creates an unhelpful moral landscape.

I think the world has a global responsibility to stop genocide and aggression in all its forms, but that doesn't always mean sending weapons.

We can't arm the Uyghurs in China, but that doesn't mean we're enabling China's genocide.

There are many levers that can and should be pulled as are appropriate to a nations position, power and wealth.

Saying give guns or you're aiding genocide is an unhelpful foundation for respectful collaboration and is bad rhetoric.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We (the US) are enabling the genocide of the Uyghur people… outside of a few political stunts of “blocking” exports from those areas by purchasing from China and giving money to their government, thereby funding them, and turning a mostly blind eye to the genocide we’re helping at worst and enabling at best. It’s not really complex unless you make it complex.

Watching Ukraine get their land and people stolen from them and doing absolutely nothing is helping.

I didn’t say people had to give guns, I said they had to provide aid. That can come in many forms.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

I'm not saying you did. I'm agreeing with you on aid.

I'm saying the title of the post is unhelpful. It is not a dichotomy of guns or you're with Putin.

I'm saying talking in such terms is unhelpful for establishing dialogue. I genuinely did not expect this to be controversial or difficult.

It's a bad title. It's a bad argument and if we want to help Ukraine, we should do everything in our power to elevate good faith discussions and arguments.

I agree about the Uyghurs and any trading partner with China sharing culpability. The point is that guns aren't the solution there and even for Ukraine, for some nations, guns are not the best path forward for a variety of reasons.

I think NATO nations have a huge responsibility to step up and I'm frustrated with the US's foot dragging on this issue, especially when there seems to be unlimited funds for Israel to bomb Palestinians.

[+] [email protected] -31 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Israel has already killed more civilians in 45 days than Putin during his entirely Ukraine war.

The west is commiting actual genocide right now. Don't mis use the word for Putin.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Do you just go to every post to talk about Israel?

[+] [email protected] -21 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It seemed like you needed a lesson of what true genocide looks like since you cannot seem to recognize it.

A genocide is about ethnically cleansing a population. Killing them all. Then replacing them with your own race.

Putin is trying to steal land, not to kill everyone on it. He is not nearly as evil as America and israel which literally want to slaughter all the natives of a land.

Stop using the word genocide if you don't know what it means.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I didn't write the article. Share your issues with the author.