this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
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[–] [email protected] 129 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

WOW the number of people in this thread immediately jumping to the accusers being "false" and deserving jail. Because no actual sexual predator ever got away with it in court...

(Sex crimes are extraordinarily difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt because the actions are taken in private without a lot of physical evidence. Which sexual predators rely on to get away with their crimes, by the way.)

Perhaps we should review the sheer volume of young men from all over the US & UK reporting that Spacey was at best inappropriate with them. One of the youngest being 14 years old:

https://people.com/tv/kevin-spacey-controversy-timeline/

And just in case some of us need a refresher course, the rate of false rape accusations is low:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21164210/

And the rate of sexual assault is high:

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Indeed. In a thread a couple of days back on a different (though related) subject I was accused of being a rape apologist because I was insistent on the presumption of innocence and the beyond-reasonable-doubt standards that need to be overcome when accusations like this are slung. But it works the same in the other direction too - we can't assume that an accuser is guilty of fraud or libel or filing false reports or whatever just because they failed to prove their case.

It would not be good for justice if these situations ended up being "now that the accusation has been made someone is going to go to jail, either the accused or the accuser." The Thunderdome is not a good model to emulate.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yeah this whole thing isn't simple. Even if he's cleared of charges, these allegations are old and that makes them hard to prove or disprove.

Further, the quantity is concerning. Maybe he's just prolifically sexual but my gut can't really get passed how many accusations there are over such a long span of time. Even if innocent, still creepy is my opinion.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

In general, any multimillionaire that gets off of a serious charge doesn't mean they're innocent.

It just another example of having ridiculous amounts of money in our legal system means it's really hard to be hel accountable.

Hell, trump got off of beating and raping his wife, because of an old ass New York law that said a husband can't rape his wife under any circumstance.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

In general, any multimillionaire that gets off of a serious charge doesn’t mean they’re innocent.

Don't forget the flip-side of that - the prisons are full of poor people who do not deserve to be there. It's almost as if the system was designed to be like this...

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

the quantity is concerning

And also not admissible in a criminal court. That's part of the problem. If you look at the big picture, it's obvious he did it, but it's not as easy to prove it in criminal court.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Even if it were all legally fine, something is wrong if that many people are coming forward.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

From his wiki:

On October 29, 2017, actor Anthony Rapp alleged that Spacey, while appearing intoxicated, made a sexual advance toward him at a party in 1986, when Rapp was 14 and Spacey was 26.[118][119] Rapp had also shared this story in a 2001 interview with The Advocate, but Spacey's name was redacted from publication to avoid legal disputes and public outing.[120] Spacey stated through Twitter that he did not remember the encounter, but that he owed Rapp "the sincerest apology for what would have been deeply inappropriate drunken behavior" if he had behaved as asserted.[121][122] On September 9, 2020, Rapp sued Spacey for sexual assault, sexual battery, and intentional infliction of emotional distress under the Child Victims Act.[123]

Fifteen others then came forward alleging similar abuse,[124] including Boston anchorwoman Heather Unruh, who alleged that Spacey sexually assaulted her son;[125][126] filmmaker Tony Montana; actor Roberto Cavazos;[127] Richard Dreyfuss's son Harry;[128] and eight people who worked on House of Cards.[129] The Guardian was contacted by "a number of people" who alleged that Spacey "groped and behaved in an inappropriate way with young men" as artistic director of the Old Vic.[130][131][132]

Spacey also appears on flight logs from Jeffrey Epstein's private jet from the early 2000s.[133]

Coming Out Controversy On the same day as Rapp's allegations against him, Spacey came out as gay when apologizing to Rapp. He said, "I have had relationships with both men and women. I have loved and had romantic encounters with men throughout my life, and I choose now to live as a gay man."[134][135] His decision to come out via his statement was criticized by gay celebrities, including Billy Eichner, George Takei, Lance Bass, and Wanda Sykes, as an attempt to change the subject and shift focus from Rapp's accusation, for using his own drunkenness as an excuse for making a sexual advance on a minor, and for implying a connection between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.[136][137][138]

Some readers additionally felt that by claiming he was "horrified" by Rapp's story, Spacey was attempting to paint himself as the victim of the alleged abuse.[139] In October 2022, Spacey expressed regret over the way he came out and said that it was "never [his] intention" to deflect from the allegations against him or conflate them with his sexual orientation.[140][141]

Reaction and ramifications Amid the allegations, filming was suspended on the sixth and final season of House of Cards. The show's production company had implemented "an anonymous complaint hotline, crisis counselors, and sexual harassment legal advisors for the crew", and stated that in 2012, "someone on the crew shared a complaint about a specific remark and gesture made by Kevin Spacey. Immediate action was taken following our review of the situation and we are confident the issue was resolved promptly to the satisfaction of all involved."[142] According to the production company, Spacey "willingly participated in a training process and since that time MRC has not been made aware of any other complaints" involving him.[143] The show had been due to end in 2018.[125] The season was shortened from 13 episodes to eight, and Spacey was removed from the cast and from his role as executive producer.[144]

The Gore Vidal biographical film Gore, starring Spacey, which was set to be distributed by Netflix, was canceled,[145][146] and Netflix went on to sever all ties with him.[147] He was due to appear in All the Money in the World as industrialist J. Paul Getty; his scenes were cut and Christopher Plummer replaced him as Getty in reshoots.[67] In an interview with Variety, Plummer said, "It's really not replacing [Spacey]. It's starting all over again." Plummer elaborated saying, "I think it's very sad what happened to him... Kevin is such a talented and a terrifically gifted actor, and it's so sad. It's such a shame. That's all I can say, because that's it."[148]

The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences reversed its decision to honor Spacey with the 2017 International Emmy Founders Award.[149] On November 2, 2017, Variety reported that his publicist Staci Wolfe and talent agency Creative Artists Agency were ending their relationships with him.

Good Morning America on May 31, 2022, Spacey said that he would "voluntarily appear in the U.K. as soon as can be arranged".[181]

In his first British court appearance on June 16, Spacey denied the allegations against him.[182] On July 14, 2022, Spacey pleaded not guilty to the charges in London. [183][184] On November 16, 2022, the CPS authorized an additional seven charges against Spacey, all related to a single complainant arising from incidents alleged to have occurred between 2001 and 2004.[185][186] Three charges were dismissed before or during the trial which began on June 28, 2023, and on July 26, 2023, a jury found Spacey not guilty of the remaining nine charges.


Frankly I wish more court details were in the articles about this. There are a lot of accusers and info on the wiki, I can't help but feel if he was accused of assaulting women this would have gone differently

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

~~So, Spacey has been accused by a number of people and the charges from one accuser have been dismissed ~~

I need to learn to read the article fully before commenting 🤦‍♂️

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

No, these were nine accusations bought by four separate men. All were dismissed by the jury and notably this was a unanimous, not majority verdict.

There was also the earlier case bought in the US which was dismissed by the judge, I believe.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (9 children)

There needs to be trust in the justice system. Otherwise, there's no point in having a justice system. If he's cleared, then there wasn't enough evidence and he should be considered innocent. That's how our justice system works. Don't break the social contract because of your vendetta against rich people.

The problem is that our society doesn't encourage people to immediately report crimes nor provide sufficient support for people who have been abused.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Do you think OJ Simpson is innocent? Would you want your daughter or sister to marry him?

The are different standards for a reason. Society is perfectly capable of being aware that someone is a giant dickbag without there being enough evidence to justify using the power of the state to remove their freedom and incarcerate them. Those are two extraordinarily different things and you know it.

To suggest otherwise is to imply that the government is a perfect arbiter of dispute that we should all just blindly accept. Something tells me you wouldn't be so keen on that stance when it worked against your interests

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (16 children)

I think we need to recognise the moral panic of the situation too. People are out there looking to cancel others, others are out to use the moment for financial gain, and then there is the legitimate ones too. We dont know which they are and for the most part, the judicial system is only OK at separating them.

If you can smear someone and that's it their life is over, no matter the truth of it, then what justice is that?

What's the truth here.. not very many people know, clearly.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

While you may trust implicitly, many have witnessed and experienced enough injustice to understand how the world works.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Innocence is VERY SPECIFICALLY NOT WHAT COURTS declare. They only ever declare that there wasn't enough evidence presented to proof guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

The presumption of innocence is an internationally-recognized human right.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

This is the same justice system that lets people do lynchings. The only people that should trust it are rapists and white supremacists.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

and he should be considered ~~innocent~~ not guilty.

FTFY. Words have meanings and those meanings are important.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Innocent until proven guilty*

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yeah, more apologetics from someone who doesn't get that our system is clearly failing us and we want, no DEMAND something new and different.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Obviously, no one should be convicted if evidence is insufficient. The issue that I have is that it's difficult to believe someone is innocent when multiple people have alleged similar complaints. Does that make him guilty? No. But it increases my suspicion. And I'll never be able to shake that suspicion. It doesn't mean I want him locked up. It only means that I'm not comfortable with his art going forward. Which is a shame, because he's one of the best actors of our time.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Love the wording for the charges, "causing a person to engage in penetrative sexual activity without consent".

That's an awful lot of words for rape.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The wording covers men and women. In the US rape is usually defined as vaginal penetration. Sex acts is usually defined as everything but vaginal.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

...it's from a odd technicality where on ol' blighty, a male can't be "raped" because of how the laws are written. Call it a peculiarity of their system or sexism, but it results in oddly sounding charges like what you see reported at least.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I don't think this changes thing. Not for me at least. He's had at least a dozen other people accuse him - including people that don't need his money or notoriety. And while he was cleared of criminal wrong doing in the Anthony Rapp case, I don't think he ever denied making an advance on a 14 year old boy. Just that he "didn't remember it" - which hardly matters. I don't care how drunk I get. I'm not accidentally going to hit on children.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Didn’t many of his accusers die?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Yes. All after that weird "Kill Them With Kindness" youtube christmas video.

Linda Culkin.

An anonymous massage therapist.

Ari Behn, a Norwegian author and television host.

recap

And now, many of the remaining accusers seem to be reluctant to push forward. Almost like the christmas was a coded message to people he has dirt on, but Hollywood's never associated with people with delusions of spy novels. Clearly all those people were clout chasers.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I know it's incredibly difficult, but if you are ever sexually assaulted, it's crucial to report it as soon as possible.

Time erodes facts, witnesses, memory, and only hurts a victim's chance to seek justice. Prosecuting a sexual predator early also ensures that no one else can be victimized.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Wish there was more details in the article. Wonder if he’s blacklisted now or will he be able to get back into movies or shows.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

He has been doing a movie

I'm not sure if this trial changes things much after reading about the rest of the harassment cases around him on wikipedia. Kinda OJ/Cosby vibes

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Since when did film directors and producers not hire rapists

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

As we’ve seen, a lot of them are rapists too.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Rich white man got away with crime. Shocker.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

I choose now, to live, as a creepy old man. 👏👏👏👏

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I just want to know if I can start enjoying The Usual Suspects again :’(

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