this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2023
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Politics

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178
Trump Indicted Over Efforts to Overturn 2020 Election (www.nytimes.com)
submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This seemed to be popular information when I posted it (ahem) "elsewhere". Thought it might be welcome to have here.

If you're trying to keep track of where we're at in the Trump prosecutions:

Updated 8/1/2023

Washington, D.C. - 4 felonies, January 6th Election Interference
Investigation
Indictment <- You Are Here
Arrest
Trial
Conviction
Sentencing

Georgia - Election Interference
Investigation <- You Are Here
2 new grand juries impaneled 7/11/2023.
Indictment - July 11th to September 1st.
(Grand Jury work expected July 31 to Aug. 18)
Arrest
Trial
Conviction
Sentencing

New York State - 34 felonies, Stormy Daniels Payoff
Investigation
Indictment
Arrest <- You Are Here
Trial - March 25th, 2024
Conviction
Sentencing

Florida - 40 felonies, Federal documents charges
Investigation
Indictment
Original indictment was for 37 felonies.
3 new felonies were added on July 27, 2023.
Arrest <- You Are Here
Trial - May 20, 2024
Conviction
Sentencing

Other grand juries, such as for the documents at Bedminster, have not been announced.

The E. Jean Carroll trial for sexual assault and defamation where Trump was found liable and ordered to pay $5 million before immediately defaming her again resulting in a demand for $10 million is not listed as it's a civil case and not a crimimal one.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Thank you for sharing it in this format. Makes it a lot easier to understand and parse.

I didnt grasp just how many felonies he's being investigated and charged for. It's wild

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

About goddamned time

[–] Zamotic 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Don't celebrate until it sticks. I have a horrible feeling he's going to somehow weasel his way out of all of these indictments and still pull out a Biden vs Trump rematch in 2024.

Ranked choice voting can't come soon enough.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm not celebrating, I'm complaining. The evidence for this case has been a matter of public record for far too long before we even saw this indictment.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Exactly. Any regular person would be in prison for decades if not forever, a dozen times over, in the time it took for them to get even this far. After they're done, they should also look at all the people that obstructed this long too. They're complicit at the very least.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Every GOP senator and house member who participated in the coordinated plan to delay the vote is a co-conspirator.

They all hoped the coup would succeed and they could write the history - until they're punished the coup hasn't failed and they have every incentive to continue it.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'll cut them some slack for a few reasons:

  1. Trump was President when he did this shit and charging a President, former or otherwise, is uncharted territory.

  2. My wife quotes the Wire all the time. "When you come at the king, you best not miss." Not only is this uncharted, but nobody can run the risk of doing it wrong.

  3. This isn't only about Trump, this is breaking new ground and setting precedent for posterity. Generations are watching what is transpiring here. This will be taught in history lessons and law schools from now on.

So, yeah, no pressure.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not completely uncharted, but there's a world of difference between a speeding in a horse-drawn carriage and a serious criminal charge.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that charge was mostly in good humor, wheras attempting to overturn Democracy is kind of serious. :)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Those are good reasons and you won't see me arguing against them.

Still doesn't change my initial gut feeling, as shared in my top-level comment.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I'm not American, so maybe I shouldn't comment, but I think Americans wanting change should pursue Single Transferable Vote (STV).

It's basically a ranked ballot in multi-seat ridings. This is the most surefire way to dismantle a two-party system, give roughly proportional representation, maintain geographical representation, keep extreme fringe parties from gaining wedge power, and allow for choice within a party to eliminate "safe" seats.

I really wish Canada would adopt this system to prevent our descent into American political tribalism.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Ireland has used this system since independence a century ago which suggests it would work pretty well in countries like the UK and Canada too which share a fairly similar machinery of government.

I'm British and I'd genuinely vote for this on a single-issue basis! Unfortunately FPTP means we have a duopoly of two Frankenstein's monster UK-wide parties that in a reasonable electoral system would really be two or three each and will never abolish FPTP on their own as a result, the only chance would be as part of a coalition agreement with a regional party and thanks to FPTP coalitions are rare in the UK system. In 2015 the SNP (Scottish independence party, long-term incumbents there) got 56 seats off 1.4 million votes while UKIP (right wing populist party, very Brexity and went the way of the dodo soon after) got one seat off 8.3 million votes. UKIP were awful in my opinion but that was downright undemocratic.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That will not happen in America ever, because neither of the two parties are interested in real democracy beyond the bipartisan status quo.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

kagi.com ai summary

  • Former President Donald Trump was indicted on four counts related to his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results and stay in power.

  • The charges include conspiracy to defraud the U.S., obstruction of an official proceeding, and conspiracy to commit that crime.

  • Prosecutors allege Trump knew his claims of election fraud were false but continued to spread them.

  • Trump is accused of pressuring Vice President Mike Pence and state officials to overturn the election results.

  • The indictment identifies six unnamed co-conspirators who assisted Trump in his efforts.

  • The indictment relies on evidence presented by the House January 6 committee investigation.

  • The indictment does not bar Trump from running for president again in 2024.

  • Trump denounced the indictment as politically motivated and compared it to Nazi Germany.

  • An arraignment for Trump will likely be scheduled in the coming days where he will enter a plea.

  • If convicted on the most serious charges, Trump could face up to 20 years in prison, though that is unlikely.

Archive link http://archive.today/Va5Cd

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Thank you for sharing it in this format. Makes it a lot easier to understand and parse.

I didnt grasp just how many felonies he's being investigated and charged for. It's wild

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's not treason charges, but it'll do. He's facing 20+ years (not sure if the sentencing terms can be consecutive), and Smith's show-don't-tell approach is confidence-inspiring. They filed on DC, which is about as anti-Trump as jurors get. They are going for the kill on this one.

I'm waiting for the guilty verdict before celebrating, but I'll allow myself to be at least relieved for now.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Don't celebrate until his appeals are exhausted and the 2024 presidential election ends in the Democrats' favor. Trump still has a lot of ways to weasel out of this.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bad hot take (maybe): I think they have him dead to rights on the documents case but this one is going to be harder to make stick. Mens rea and all that.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Reading the indictment text, it sounds like they've got him on mens rea

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I read it just now. They seem to be depending on the argument that because so many of Trump’s own people told him there was no evidence of ‘outcome determinative’ fraud, he had to know he was making false claims fraudulently. Which would work on 99% of the human race.

But this is Trump. That crazy fucker will argue vociferously (or his lawyer will) that he got bad advice from the co-conspirators and he actually believed it … and was reasonable to do so. May well be enough to plant doubt in the minds of enough jurors to hang the jury or get an acquittal.

Or maybe not. Point is, they’ve got him on the documents. This, while more egregious, is going to be an uphill battle, I think. Best not get our hopes up and leave room for a pleasant surprise.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Good point. Yeah, that's pretty good. I guess I'm just a pessimistic git on this one. Never in the history of the world will I be more happy to be proven wrong.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

https://wapo.st/3OC0TOU

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/08/01/us/trump-indictment-jan-6?unlocked_article_code=ggFAT8WBuleGz9hhsBmYQFkZJ8uoGj04hmQywf0__WaqpdGGJ3o48eTS8814RprH-LS5eXN9XmzjiwMe-m3utoWqRP9iqSfpncTo-kPBQzuSMDbBBmNpQ34kLGaJgQrMHArzrtvCZNzPqMsVsJiS5ANInndxmf5Lv_mp4ddUAQj5yxSoA9OP48AXJttHSqOyjfCgILasUk8sCTXkSePofhdOJbArUkrU_OFlYcET7pV5VfBLwjRIXjIwJc1ITvNdm6FA1oFACULXlrI0oYcAIlFIUtiC6ypRbaaXFkG7GNU6zazPfjkYbDD_bnepX2hB5RIgE0ZS651vtmVRiexfUsYxXGY