JupiterRowland

Any bets this will only work with Mastodon because it was built and designed only against Mastodon?

I wouldn't even be surprised if other Fediverse server apps could simply circumvent sub.club if sub.club assumes that everything else out there works like Mastodon, too.

But where would a unified Web client run in the first place? It would have to be installed on a Web server and, from there, access the Web servers of the various different server apps which would still be entirely different and independent installations.

For a Web client with no actual server backend, the same would go as for a mobile app: It would have to cover pretty much all features of everything. If uniting Lemmy and Mastodon in one UI seems tricky already, try adding Hubzilla and (streams) to the mix.

If you're actually looking for a unified Web server and client, i.e. one Fediverse project that literally covers everything the Fediverse can do with one login on one server and one identity: This won't happen.

This would be way too much for one Fediverse project to tackle. You'd basically have to start with (streams), add back all functionality that has been removed since the first fork from Hubzilla (and that's a whole lot), make all kinds of non-nomadic protocols compatible with nomadic identity via Nomad and ActivityPub, and then gradually add all kinds of features from all over the place, from PeerTube to Funkwhale, from PieFed to Owncast, from Mobilizon to BookWyrm. And you'd have to soft-fork everything and keep them in-sync with their respective upstreams.

The outcome would be too complex for most. People would have to deal with their account/their login not being their identity because their identity is containerised in a channel. They would have to wrap their minds around nomadic identity. They would have to deal with fine-grained permissions settings. They would have a post editor that's every bit as powerful as those on big blogging platforms when all they want to do is tweet and retweet and occasionally watch a video. And they would have tons of features on top.

The whole thing would be an utter nightmare for its developers as well, seeing as they'd constantly have to track over 100 Fediverse projects and implement any upgrades which they've rolled out.

Hubzilla and (streams) can be installed as PWAs.

It isn't just types of content that makes a fully featured, unified Fediverse client nigh-impossible. It's features in general.

It all starts with having one unified timeline for any arbitrary number of Fediverse identities on any arbitrary number of different Fediverse servers. Nicely convenient. You only open one app, and you've got them all. Not even separated timelines within the same app, TweetDeck-style. No, you have posts on your three Mastodon accounts under posts on your Pixelfed account under posts on your Lemmy account under posts on your Friendica account, maybe even under posts on your Hubzilla channel if the app isn't limited to the Mastodon API, and if it supports multiple identities under one login.

But it doesn't stop there.

Maybe you want to reply to a post. Or you want to post something yourself.

And, of course, you don't want to stick with the basics that Mastodon offers. Maybe you want to use text formatting.

So text formatting has to be implemented. But it has to be deactivated if you want to post to one of your Mastodon accounts, but it has to be reactivated if one of them is actually on Glitch.

Next trouble: Not everything that supports text formatting supports standard Markdown. Misskey and its various forks use "Misskey-flavoured Markdown". On Friendica, Markdown is optional and off by default, and BBcode is the standard. On Hubzilla, Markdown is not available at all, only BBcode is, and it comes with a whole slew of extras specific to Mike Macgirvin's nomadic projects from Red (2012) to Forte (2024). So yes, you may want support for things like [zmg][/zmg], [zrl=][/zrl] or [observer.baseurl].

Of course, if you are on Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams), you're used to having a post preview. Code-heavy posting like on these three makes it a requirement; pure plain-text posting like on Mastodon doesn't. But the preview button must be able to faithfully render any post just like its native server application would render it. No matter what it'll be. Oh, and if you've got NSFW activated on your Friendica account or your Hubzilla or (streams) channel, the preview must be hidden behind an automatically generated content warning.

Speaking of which, Mastodon-style CWs aren't unified either. Depending on the server, they would have to go into the CW field, the summary field, [abstract=apub][/abstract] (Friendica), [summary][/summary] (streams) or nowhere at all (e.g. Lemmy, replies on Hubzilla).

The Fediverse has various different ways of quote-posting, and Mastodon doesn't have quote-posts at all. The Threadiverse has dislikes/downvotes/thumbs-down, Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) optionally have them, too, but others don't. Misskey and the Forkeys have emoji reactions. Hubzilla has only twelve emojis, and clicking one creates a whole new comment with only that emoji in it. Friendica lets you hashtag other people's posts, so does (streams) optionally, but only they themselves even understand this feature.

Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) also have categories, much like a blog, next to hashtags. At least on Hubzilla and (streams), they're optional. But they require their own text field which the app must have, too, depending on the availability of this feature.

This goes further and further. After all, you may not just want basic functionality for when you aren't on your computer. Maybe you don't have a computer. Maybe your phone is the only digital end-user device you possess. So the app would have to cover not only the bare necessities (read, reply, post etc.), but everything.

For example, someone wants to follow you. On Mastodon, you just confirm it if you've set your account up to do so manually, and you're done.

On Hubzilla with enough optional features activated, you assign a contact role to the new contact to give it the permissions you want to grant it, you add it to one or multiple privacy groups, you choose which profile that contact can see, you adjust the affinity slider, you may even want to pre-fill the per-contact filter lists (one allowlist, one blocklist), and then you confirm the new connection. Upon which Hubzilla automatically follows that connection back. Oh, and then you can still block or ignore or archive a connection or set it to invisible. On (streams), it's somewhat similar, but since you can grant individual permissions to specific contacts in addition to a pre-defined permission role, you've got even more options.

A unified, daily-driver Fediverse app that's supposed to fully replace Web interfaces would have to offer UI elements for all these settings. And only when they're actually needed.

Don't get me started about settings and options. Again, the app would have to mirror all of them. Many people have never touched the Web UI of their Fediverse servers, and they don't intend to. They do everything on their phones with dedicated apps.

On Hubzilla, this would include access to Hubzilla's built-in "apps". "Install", "uninstall" and configure them. Many important optional features are "apps". But amongst these "apps", there are also things like articles, wikis and Web pages. And what would being able to turn these features on and off be worth if you couldn't use them in the app? And so the app will also have to provide access to Hubzilla's articles and wikis and Web pages with all bells and whistles.

Of course, whenever a Fediverse server app changes in a way that makes changes in the UI necessary, this unified mobile app would have to follow suit immediately.

Even Fedilab is limited.

Sure, most "Fediverse apps" are Mastodon apps which allow you to use anything that supports the Mastodon API, but which only offer you Mastodon's feature set, maybe even only the feature set of Mastodon 3 if the app is old enough.

Fedilab has specific features of other projects coded in. After all, it's made by Pixelfed's creator and developer, so it has to support as many Pixelfed features as possible, even if Mastodon doesn't have them.

But Fedilab doesn't have all features of all supported projects. For example, Fedilab does not have the necessary extra entry field for post titles on Friendica.

You don’t need any app at all to access it. Apps are just frontends (user interfaces) to access the information submitted to the Fediverse.

For many Fediverse users, Mastodon is an app. The whole of Mastodon is one app. Mastodon the server application and Mastodon the official phone app are united in one big murky monolith.

The Fediverse is not one enclosed, unified entity under one centralised rule.

It's a common misconception that "the Fediverse" is a network platform created by whomever, usually Eugen Rochko. And Mastodon, Lemmy, Misskey, Friendica, Pixelfed, PeerTube etc. are Web UIs for the Fediverse, and Mona, IceCubes, Tusky, Fedilab etc. are mobile UIs for the Fediverse which mimic the functionality of certain Web UIs.

This is complete non-sense. None of this is true.

Instead, the Fediverse is a patchwork of many different things that work together by speaking common languages. And with "work together", I mean "work together ever so barely" in many cases. Mastodon and Lemmy are not different clients for the same server thing. They connect, but they can hardly interact.

These "apps" aren't client apps. They're server applications. They provide a whole slew of very very different server backends.

There is no "Fediverse suite of apps" either. Just about everything in the Fediverse is developed and offered separately from one another.

Mastodon, in particular, ignores the whole rest of the Fediverse and tries to present itself to its users and Fediverse novices as "the Fediverse". And when Mastodon users discover that Mastodon is, in fact, not "the Fediverse", Mastodon makes them believe that everything that doesn't work exactly like Mastodon is broken.

Oh, and no, Eugen Rochko didn't invent the Fediverse. Evan Prodromou did. In 2008. That was when he took his recently launched Twitter alternative Identi.ca, open-sourced its technology under the name Laconi.ca (later StatusNet, now part of GNU social) and laid its protocol open under the name OpenMicroBlogging (now OStatus).

The Fediverse consisting of multiple different kinds of interacting servers came to exist in 2010 when Mike Macgirvin launched his Facebook alternative named Mistpark (now Friendica). He built it on top of a whole new protocol, but he gave it the ability to speak OpenMicroBlogging as well, thus connecting it to StatusNet. One key feature of Friendica is still to be able to connect to everything that moves and then some.

Mastodon was built on top of OStatus, too. But the intention was not to connect it to already-existing StatusNet, Friendica, Hubzilla (a much more powerful Friendica fork by Mike Macgirvin himself) and Pleroma (which had started out as an alternative UI for StatusNet). The idea was rather that using an already existing protocol was easier for a young and barely experienced coder than designing an all-new protocol from scratch. Mastodon never intended to be interoperable with anything else.

Even when Mastodon introduced ActivityPub as early as September, 2017, it was not to be able to interact with Hubzilla which had it first, two months earlier. By the way, ActivityPub is another one of Evan Prodromou's creations, but this time, he wasn't alone.

The idea behind Lemmy seemed to be similar: Build a Reddit clone, but without the hassle of designing a brand-new communication protocol. The difference was that Mastodon was already quite well-known when Lemmy was launched. When Mastodon was launched, StatusNet was considered dead after its only really known instance, Identi.ca had switched from OStatus to pump.io. As for Friendica, Hubzilla and Pleroma, nobody knew they existed, much less that they spoke OStatus. OStatus was there, ready to use, but to most people who came across it, it felt unused. So I guess that when Eugen Rochko created Mastodon, he unironically and sincerely believed that he was now the only one using this protocol, nobody else ever would again, and Mastodon would only ever connect to itself. Mastodon's whole very concept is to be a "federated walled garden", decentralised on the inside, but not letting anything else connect.

It literally started in 2010, almost six years before Mastodon.

If you're looking for something that is to Facebook what Bluesky is to pre-Musk Twitter, it doesn't exist.

Otherwise, "the Facebook ones" are:

• Friendica (intended to be a Facebook alternative from the very beginning, designed to federate with everything that moves)
• Hubzilla (fork of (a fork of?) Friendica by Friendica's own creator, currently the most powerful piece of server software in the whole Fediverse, basically a federated Swiss army knife that can do Facebook as well)
• the nameless thing in the streams repository (not in this graph, fork of a fork of a fork of a fork... of Hubzilla by Friendica's and Hubzilla's creator, less feature-laden than Hubzilla, but more modern and evolving at a rapid pace, the most advanced piece of server software in the whole Fediverse, but instances are hard to find)

At least hardly anyone on Lemmy believes the Fediverse was invented by Eugen Rochko in 2022 as a reaction upon Elon Musk's announcement to buy Twitter.

In the end I still don’t understand that specific culture. I’ve scrolled through a few of the hashtags and links you gave. Some of them I’d shorten to half the length. That some bubbles in an infographic have different color is completely useless information without telling what they’re trying to convey with the color and how that connects things. Other images I think they describe the details that are just fluff. Those details are irrelevant because they just set the atmosphere. Just say what the armosphere is, then. I think that’s making the text too long and all over the place. Making it difficult to focus on what’s really going on in the picture, what’s important, because there’s so much noise added

By professional Web design standards, you're right. But this is part of Mastodon's culture, too: detailed image descriptions that nobody would ever put on a Web site. As long as more people praise than directly criticise it, this won't change.

The people who introduced alt-text to Mastodon and cultivated its alt-text culture were complete amateurs on smartphones who wanted to do something good for blind or visually-impaired users so that they can participate, too. And not professional Web designers who live and breathe WCAG 2.2.

If you say you’re already adding a concise description and a long one and adding that to the body text… Seems I’ve arrived with my reasoning somwhere near what you’ve already been doing.

Yes, I do, and I gave you a link as proof. If you don't know how to access alt-text, and you're on a computer, then hover your mouse cursor steadily above the image, and the alt-text will appear.

I got that you’re using Hubzilla. But we’ve got to think about the perspective of a Mastodon user as long as most of your audience is there.

Exactly this is how Mastodon tries to force its culture upon the whole rest of the Fediverse. For example, this is how Mastodon tries to force Friendica to abandon its own culture which is six years older than Mastodon's culture and adopt Mastodon's culture instead.

"We're the majority, so we get to decide how things are done! This is our territory, our Fediverse now!"

If Lemmy had better federation with Mastodon, Mastodon would try to do the same thing with Lemmy.

And your perspective might be a bit spoiled. Since you’re on Hubzilla and that’s meant for a wide variety of tasks. And Mastodon on the other side is meant to narrow things down to the use-case of microblogging… It’s kind of per design that your content falls through in the process of narrowing it down. And lot’s of Fediverse platforms are meant for one task only. Either pictures or videos or threaded conversations like here. That also doesn’t translate to other platforms and looks weird on Mastodon. The users of “all-in-one” platforms like Hubzilla or Friendica etc get it all. But then it get’s problematic when interconnecting to users of “narrower” platforms. It’s always been that way. And I don’t see a way around that. At least fundamentally.

In other words, the whole Fediverse should succumb to both technological limitations/limitations in concept and cultural limitations on Mastodon. If Mastodon can't do it, or if Mastodon users don't like it, users of Pleroma and Akkoma and Misskey and Firefish and Iceshrimp and Sharkey and Friendica and Hubzilla etc. etc. pp. must not make use of it.

In which way should Mastodon adjust itself to the technology and culture of non-Mastodon projects? And do you honestly believe Mastodon would actually do any of that?

Speaking of technological limitations on Mastodon, I have pretty few to worry about.

If I post 60,000+ characters, Mastodon display the very self-same 60,000+ characters. No problem.

If I put 1,500 characters into the alt-text, Mastodon takes over all 1,500 characters. No problem. That is, if I write more, they're truncated, but Misskey and its forks does the same.

If I put a Mastodon-style content warning into the summary field, Mastodon users get their content warning. No problem.

It's only inline images that are a bit of a problem. Hubzilla has to turn a copy of the image into a file attachment and also copy the alt-text from the image embedding code into the attached image file so that Mastodon has at least got one way to show the image. But still, Mastodon gets the image, and Mastodon gets the alt-text.

Lemmy seems to be the wrong place to discuss it.

Well, then there isn't any place at all in the Fediverse or on the Web where I can go and ask e.g. whether illegible text in an image that I can read just fine at the source must, may or mustn't be transcribed when writing an image description for a Fediverse post. There's no such place at all.

Maybe within the “all-in-one” platforms like Hubzilla. You’re bound to find more people with the same struggles there.

Nope. What few Hubzilla users know Mastodon's culture despise it deeply because Mastodon is trying to force it upon them. The vast majority of Hubzilla's users knows nothing about Mastodon's culture.

Also, I'm very very likely the only Hubzilla user who puts alt-text on images. And I'm definitely the only Hubzilla user who adds a long, detailed image description in the post itself on top.

Hubzilla's culture doesn't know accessibility, and it doesn't care. Same goes for Friendica. Friendica's alt-text handling is actually buggy, but the only Friendica user who even only tries to write alt-text apparently doesn't know how to file a bug report on a Git repository.

In fact, throughout the Fediverse, Mastodon is the only project for whose users alt-text and image descriptions are really serious business. For people everywhere else, it's largely a stupid gimmick or completely unknown.

But you need to lay down the groundworks properly.

I've learned that much. If I want to discuss something concerning Mastodon someplace else than Mastodon, I'll first have to explain how Mastodon works and how Mastodon deviates from what people are used to where I post. Then I'll have to explain Mastodon's user community, who they are in general, where they came from, how most of them are tech-illiterates on phones, and half of them think Mastodon is the Fediverse. Then I'll have to explain Mastodon's culture and give a few links to demonstrate it.

Since all this would be tl;dr, I'd have to explain it by and by and in such ways that my explanations are remembered by the other users.

Then and only then I can ask for advice. That is, probably not even then because all advice I could expect would be 100% based on information that I myself have provided, and I'd be none the wiser.

That’s a bit more complicated than I thought.

Then allow me to make it less complicated. Or even more complicated.

And I’m not sure if Lemmy is the right choice for you anyways. The OpenSim community doesn’t seem very active. And since you’re talking about 13.000 character descriptions… That will also not fly on Lemmy.

It has never been my plan to post images with such massive descriptions on Lemmy. Lemmy doesn't require image descriptions. It doesn't require alt-text either. It doesn't even officially support alt-text. Lemmy doesn't live and enforce a culture of accessibility.

Most importantly, though: The OpenSim community has no subscribers on general-purpose Mastodon instances. What's posted there will most likely never appear in the federated timeline of e.g. mastodon.social where people could get all riled up about the lack of alt-text and image description.

Besides, the 13,000-character image description is outdated already. My image descriptions have grown since then. 25,000 characters, 40,000 characters, and yesterday, I've posted a 60,000-character description for an image that also got an alt-text precisely at Mastodon's limit of 1,500 characters.

And then Mastodon is a microblogging platform. Originally intended for short messages.

**I don't intend to post my images on Mastodon either.

I intend to keep posting them on Hubzilla (official website).**

Hubzilla has got nothing to do with Mastodon. It was first released in 2015, ten months before Mastodon. It was renamed and repurposed from the Red Matrix from 2012 which is a fork of Friendica from 2010.

Hubzilla is vastly different from Mastodon in just about everything. Like its predecessors, it has never had a character limit, and it has always had the full set of features of text formatting and post design as any full-blown long-form blogging platform out there. In fact, maybe even more than that.

Hubzilla is not a microblogging project. It can work as one, but it can seamlessly transition between microblogging and fully featured long-form blogging and everything in-between. Hubzilla is the Swiss army knife of the Fediverse, renamed from a fork of a Facebook alternative that was created also with blogging in mind.

So I want to post my images on Hubzilla.

What does this have to do with Mastodon then?

It has to do with Mastodon that I've got lots of Mastodon connections. All my OpenSim connections except for one are on Mastodon, and I think all of these are on one and the same OpenSim-themed instance. But on top of that, I've got hundreds of Mastodon connections all over the place, including mastodon.social and other big general-purpose instances.

And all those non-OpenSim Mastodon connections came to exist because they followed me. It was not my decision to follow them. They followed me because they expected me to explain the Fediverse beyond Mastodon to them because I had recently done so. Or they followed me because they had freshly arrived from Twitter, and they desperately needed Mastodon to feel like Twitter, including lots of uninteresting background noise in their personal timeline, so they followed everyone and everything they came across in the federated timeline.

So my image posts on Hubzilla will automatically federate to Mastodon and appear in people's Mastodon timelines. And it isn't my decision.

Sure, on Hubzilla, I have the power to limit precisely who can see my posts by only sending them to specific connections. But I want the Fediverse world out there to see the marvels of OpenSim, to learn that free, decentralised 3-D virtual worlds have been reality since 2007, that "the metaverse" is anything but dead and not invented by Zuckerberg. I don't want to remain stuck in an echo chamber.

Oh, and by the way: Mastodon can receive posts up to a maximum length of 100,000 characters by default. Also, Mastodon does not truncate long posts. It only truncates alt-text that exceeds 1,500 characters. But it leaves posts up to 100,000 characters as intact as any other post and probably simply rejects longer posts.

It might be you using the wrong tool for your task, since it’s intended for a different purpose and you’d need a different tool.

My tool of choice is Hubzilla. And there's hardly anything better in the Fediverse for what I do than Hubzilla.

But it could very well the case that the alt-text and character limits of the platforms aren’t the issue here.

They're only indirectly. With that, I mean that Mastodon's default limit of 500 characters is deeply engrained in Mastodon's culture, and Mastodon's culture is influenced by this limitation. For example, 500 characters make image descriptions in the post impossible. Thus, they're not part of Mastodon's culture. Thus, the very concept, the very idea is completely unimaginable to Mastodon users. Because as per Mastodon's unwritten rules, "alt-text" and "image description" are mutually synonymous. They mean the exact same thing. Everything that describes the image goes into the alt-text, and that's the way it is, full stop.

There are some that are meant for long texts.

Hubzilla is meant for long texts. It has always been.

And you can even use Wordpress or something like that, do your own blog and install an ActivityPub plugin if you want a connection to the Fediverse.

And Hubzilla is every bit as capable of long-form blogging as WordPress.

There's no need to have one separate tool for each task if you already have one tool that can cover all these tasks. And Hubzilla can.

Ultimately, I haven’t seen your posts/toots.

Here's my most recent image post from yesterday.

60,000+ characters of full image description, my longest one so far. Plus precisely 1,500 characters of alt-text. And I actually had to limit myself in comparison to earlier posts. No detailed descriptions of images within the image. No transcripts of text on images within the image. No mentioning in the alt-text where exactly to find the full description.

And I don’t really know the alt-text culture on Mastodon.

And I'm trying to explain it to you.

Maybe it's easier to experience first-hand, to see it with your own very eyes. Go through what appears on mastodon.social under certain hashtags and do so regularly for a few weeks or months:

• #alttext, #alttxt
• #imagedescription, #imagedescriptions
• #bildbeschreibung, #bildbeschreibungen, #bibesch

Also, check the posts from @alttexthalloffame.

Is it really necessary to write that super detailed description in an alt-text?

In the case of the image I've posted yesterday, and seeing as that post went out to general-purpose Mastodon instances and into the realm of Mastodon culture, definitely yes.

Oh, and in case you haven't understood that yet because it's so out-of-whack: I describe my images twice. One, a short description with no explanations in alt-text. Two, a full, detailed description with all necessary explanations in the post text body itself. The latter has to be even more detailed. And here's my explanation why.

As far as I’ve learned about alt-text in webdesign, that is originally intended to give a concise description of the image in the context regarding the rest of the text. It is meant to be short and concise, like a tweet.

Alt-text rules for webdesign are halfway useless in social media.

And alt-text rules for webdesign, as well as alt-text rules for corporate American social media silos, are even more useless on Mastodon. Mastodon's alt-text culture has nothing to do with that.

I’d put that detailed description into the normal text.

Again, I already do that with the full description.

But Mastodon insists, insists, insists in an actually descriptive image description in alt-text, no matter what. For one, out of principle. Besides, they can't imagine there being an image description in the post text (which I hide behind a summary/content warning that they have to click to open first) because this is technically impossible on Mastodon.

So I have to describe the same image once more, this time in the alt-text, in addition to the full description in the post.

Maybe make it a spoiler so it collapses.

I can do that on Hubzilla. But Mastodon doesn't support spoiler tags.

Most frontends for Mastodon collapse longer posts, the official Web interface as well as probably all third-party mobile apps, only the official mobile app doesn't.

Content warnings which are the same as summaries on StatusNet/GNU social/Friendica/Hubzilla collapse posts, too, or rather hide them. I always give one of these when I post over 500 characters, so my image posts do collapse for just about everyone.

And long descriptions go into the body text, not the alt-text.

And once again, that's what I already do. In addition to the shorter description in the alt-text.

Is there a reason why you started this conversation? Something you’d like us to do?

Yes.

When I post images on Hubzilla, I always describe them. I have connections not only within Hubzilla, but mostly on Mastodon and also elsewhere (Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Firefish etc. etc., all over the place).

The problem I have is three-fold: One, my images are extreme edge-cases topic-wise. They're about 3-D virtual worlds. Very obscure 3-D virtual worlds. As in, maybe one out of 200,000 Fediverse users even knows the underlying system, and I'm not even talking about the specific place where I've taken an image. This makes very extensive image descriptions necessary because I can't suppose that people already know what whatever is in the images looks like. And it makes very extensive explanations within the image descriptions necessary so that people get the images in the first place.

I can't take anything about my pictures for common knowledge. I need over 1,000 characters alone to explain where an image is from.

Two, I'm not bound to the same limitations as your average Fediverse user when it comes to describing the image. I don't only look at the image when I'm describing it. I look at the real deal in-world when I'm describing it. This gives me an almost infinite zoom factor. I can see things in-world that are so tiny in the image that they're invisible. I can describe and actually have described in the past images within my image. And nearly on the same level as the image that I was actually describing.

Three, I'm not bound to the same limitations as your average Mastodon user when it comes to posting an image description. I am bound to the 1,500-character alt-text limit because Mastodon truncates longer alt-text and throws the excess characters away. But I do not have a 500-character limit. I don't have any character limit at all. I can post 80,000 characters, and Mastodon will show these 80,000 characters, all of them, and so will other Fediverse projects.

So I can put full, detailed image descriptions of nearly any length into the post text body. This is completely unimaginable on Mastodon. And that's why I can't discuss these things with Mastodon users: They can't even imagine what I'm doing.

Anyhow, this leads me into situations which are just as completely unimaginable for Mastodon users, which I therefore can't discuss with people who only know Mastodon. And this raises questions for me which people who only know Mastodon can't answer because they can't even imagine why I'd ask something like that, because the very concept is alien to them.

This started early on in last summer when I started to seriously describe my images after I had found out that many Mastodon users like highly detailed image descriptions. My first attempt at writing one ended with over 13,000 characters of image description, and I couldn't possibly reduce them without losing content. So I wanted to know where the best place to put such a long image description would be. I didn't even get an answer. So I had to figure out from other posts and their replies that it's always best to keep image descriptions and explanations as close to the image as possible, i.e. in the same post. I'm still not sure if that's what Mastodon users, especially disabled users, would prefer in my case.

Then more and more questions came up.

Do I have to describe images in images? Images in images in images?

For example, the rule is that if there's text within the borders of the image, it must be transcribed. However, this rule does not define edge-cases because it doesn't take edge-cases into consideration. What about text that's so small in the image that it's visible, but illegible (3 pixels high)? Or text that's so small in the image that it's invisible (less than a pixel high)? Or text that's partly obscured in the image (poster-sized sign with a tree trunk in front of it)? Must I, may I or mustn't I transcribe it? Again, let's suppose that I can read it in-world with no problems.

Or from which point on is it required to warn about eye contact? (I actually got an answer to this from someone who knows. If an eye can be made out in an image, then an eye contact warning is necessary. I was told that, yes, there are autistic persons who are triggered by an eye that's 1/100th of a pixel high and 1/100 of a pixel wide.)

All stuff that you never think about when all you ever post are fairly simple real-life photographs.

I do not want to discuss these topics in this thread! If anything, my plan is to start separate threads for each of these.

My goal is simply to find a place where I can discuss them with people who know enough to be able to give me sensible answers that I can work with.

If you think this Lemmy community is such a place, then I'll stay and ask away, and then and only then I'd like to see competent answers to my questions.

But if you think that nobody here will be able to understand what I want because what I'm asking is just too alien for everyone here, then it doesn't make sense to try and ask.