Things were not better 100 years ago.
And that’s why I’m saying it’s going all bad, because we’re headed back there.
Stampela
joined 1 year ago
Yes, and I also realize that there’s a message about being better, even if we’re going to have ups and downs. Past that, it’s an entertainment product: what tells you that hypothetical Bell Riots wouldn’t just lead to increased surveillance and armed law enforcement?
I’m not fantasizing about the past, I’m seeing the same mistakes being made, and the only thing that seems to have been learned (maybe!) is that there is a belief of getting away with it without getting lynched at the end. So basically what I’m saying is that you see things improving here and there, I see a trend that will get rid of most of it by bringing back a century ago. But I see where the misunderstanding came from, I said “go back 100 years” meaning as look at that, not 50 years ago, as things were eerily similar as where we are heading. Again, that thing about not explaining myself clearly as being part of my initial idea of bowing out of this…
American
This is the one thing we’ll agree immediately, without need of argument: born in and never left Italy. And as ultra nationalism rises, I feel less and less happy about it.
I know the definition of apathy, and that’s why I disagree with it applying to me. If you informed me that climate change is happening, I wouldn’t go “meh”, or “mainstream media fake news”. It would be along the lines of “thanks, I hate it”. I care, I worry. I do something about it when I can, maybe it’s not much but…
Also, you say 50 years ago. I say go back 100, with an asshole trying to make his country great again and invading a nearby one. With the rise of ultra nationalism, xenophobia, and uniting the people against a common enemy in the form of a minority/group. Or look at how governments criticize China, but it’s for the ideology rather than the actual reasons to criticize that government… nah, those are good ideas to copy and pass as original. Civil rights have improved a lot, no doubt about it. And that’s why they’re trying to take them back. Separation between church and state? “Christian values” are totally not reeking of god emperors. In Europe we’re doing a lot of good for the rights of people to their information! And there’s continued attempts to get mass surveillance going on, because “terrorists and child predators”. That, by the way, what is a terrorist? You could easily argue it’s someone trying to cause damage and panic by destabilizing a government. Freedom/freedom of speech? Absolute, cannot compromise on that! Obviously the others that think/look different from me are dangerous and need to be silenced, that’s not the same.
All that aside, you keep mentioning the popular vote thing. Well, that’s a thing I literally learned about moments ago, the main thing I understood is that it’s a really complex topic about good intentions and unforeseen consequences, and as such, because I know effectively nothing, I’m abstaining to discuss it. Best case scenario I’ll say something dumb, worst case something painfully wrong. Please take my argument about voting in the context of ignorance of this specific topic.
This is part of why I intended to bow out, I’m not great at explaining myself. The thing about voting is about the meaningfulness of the act: if you get a vote to annex a region, and everyone knows what the result will be, then that’s not being given an option to vote, it’s a show that has been set up. Look, your definition of fair is likely the exact same of what I mean. And if somewhere people are allowed to vote, but it’s not a fair one, then that doesn’t count for me. That part was about the functionality of a vote, not the act itself: country A has a change in something after a vote, that’s what I called “many countries”. Country B has the results pre determined regardless? Ehhhh…
Why'd you omit the "apathetic" part about the pessimist?
Because I’m not convinced about that. I think it’s more along the lines of all consuming existential dread, you say “things aren’t as bad as they could be”, I think that realistically things aren’t yet as bad as they will be.
I don’t consider voting just for show as actually voting, so when I say that I mean fair elections. Voting is how you don’t give in to apathy (about this stuff anyway), as the entire concept is there to allow some action, a push for change.
pessimist
Quite the sugar coating, but yeah. That is correct.
This is a far larger discussion than I’m willing to get into, and I know it’s not one that’ll cheer me up too, so I’m going to bow out of it while in agreement with
don't give into the apathy and it won't win as easily.
That’s why in a many countries we still have a right to vote. :)
Well, you replied to the original poster so that’s hardly a mistake :)
The thing is that I agree. I don’t see Star Trek being a realistic future in any way, unfortunately. Now, the Terran empire on the other hand, minus the space faring stuff? Can’t be too far away. Doesn’t change my thoughts about violence though.
No, but Star Trek shows us we can change for the better. I’m not saying I have a solution to offer, but violence shouldn’t be encouraged or pushed higher up in the list of things to try…
Any programmer today would think this is incredibly quaint.
Like using a keyboard :D
you embodied that comic
Yeah, I had a moment of pause before starting, and then decided that fuck it, I like tanks and I’m going to talk about them :D
Sure, easy. Italy’s current government is the most far right we’ve had since the end of WWII, the yearly celebration of the end of fascism is becoming controversial because “we’re the only ones that could celebrate defeat”. The xenophobic separatist party that has been (and still is!) the butt of the joke since the 90’s is basically what we’re getting, except it’s ultra nationalism instead of considering 2/3 of the country inferior. There’s a literal invasion going on at the doors of Europe, not everyone condemns it (globally, not specifically here). The EU council was to vote on a proposal to require… chat content moderation? I think that was the name, basically a “privacy conscious” on device automated check of at least media before it is uploaded. People cheered when they decided to not vote on it. I despair because of the reason: there was no clear majority. It’ll come back once they’re confident it will pass. Roe vs Wade overturned.
I thank you for the conversation, but as it’s been a day already, and it’s also close to an argument, I am going to bow out. It speaks volumes about the quality of Star Trek communities that I had no need to ignore ad hominems. You’re a good person.