TwistedTurtle

Uh no, lots of people here are arguing that all sex scenes that don't actively move the plot forward are inherently pointless and shouldn't be there. And I'm disagreeing.

Sex/nude scenes can positively contribute to the mood, themes, character development, world building, and other things that aren't absolutely necessary to move a plot forward.

If the original article was titled "Teens want better implementation of sex in movies" I wouldn't have commented. But most people aren't complaining about "bad implementation" or "bad filmmaking" - they're saying they don't want sex in film at all unless ABSOLUTELY necessary, and I think that's unfortunate.

Nobody is arguing that all movies need to remove violence or sexy? Where are you even getting that from?

The comment I'm replying to (and quoted) literally said: "If violence doesn’t further the plot then it shouldn’t be in there either." And plenty of people in these comments are arguing that if sexiness doesn't further the plot it shouldn't be there.

But no one here is arguing the problem is inherently with sex or romance

Again, the person I'm replying to was explicitly saying that forced romantic scenes suck, as if they are inherently a problem. I'm just saying I think the "forced" part is the problem, not the romance/sex/nudity. People here are denigrating sex/nudity/romance in film when what they should be mad at is bad filmmaking in general.

I'm not saying I want movies that have as much sex as John Wick has violence - obviously that would just be porn. My point is: why does sex have this obligation to move the plot forward when we give a pass to other gratuitous scenes (action, drama, violence, etc)?

If you want “Everyone is beautiful and everyone is fucking,” good news- that’s called porn already, and there’s so much of it.

The fact that you only equate sex/nudity to porn reveals the problem. Seems like many young people today can’t associate sex/nudity on a screen as art, or even just fun, anymore - because in their minds sex/nudity is inextricably tied to porn. The reality is sex/nudity can be fun, dramatic, scary, or funny depending on the context. It can have a place in many kinds of stories, and comparing it to porn is like saying “we have war documentaries so we don’t need war movies.” They are completely different things!!

while we pitiful repressed twilight zone voyeurs awkwardly exclude sex from our public lives.

Who said it has to be part of your "public life"? I'm not saying we should all want to watch Wild Things with our parents, but not every movie needs to be a 'family movie' that you'd want to watch in polite company. Some movies are best watched with rowdy friends or an intimate partner - and I'm sad that those types of movies have been in decline. The younger generations seem far more prudish than I ever expected.

Agreed. Too often it feels like they're just trying to check a box or fill time.

If violence doesn’t further the plot then it shouldn’t be in there either.

A lot of action movies would be very short. My poor kung fu movies would need to be cut down to about 15 minutes. Why can't we sometimes just have gratuitous things for the fun of it? Not everything needs to be high art.

We’re just tired of stupid shit like the mid-life threatening event romance scene. The timer on the bomb is literally counting down and they take the time to profess their love and it’s not a comedy so I’m the asshole for laughing in the theater.

I don't think that's an inherent problem with sex/nudity/romance, the problem is just bad filmmaking. With good writing/acting/directing/editing that exact cliche' scenario you describe could be done in such a way as to be genuinely funny, or touching, or sexy.

As I said here:

By that logic you could make arguments against a lot of different genres and classic story elements. I don’t like the argument that because media these days sucks at doing something they should avoid it altogether. I think they should just do better. Movies in the past proved it can be done.

It’s disturbing to me that we’re culturally encouraged to find fun in violence but sex needs to be cordoned off to a containment genre and excised from mainstream art. I’m not saying it needs to be in every movie - but its been obvious for a while they’re going out of their way to avoid it, even in places where it would make sense or be fun. I want art to stop awkwardly excluding a major part of life. I want out of this “Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny” Twilight Zone multiverse that all our modern movies seem to take place in.

Sex is too important to be left to porn.

As I said here:

The fact that you only equate sex/nudity to porn reveals a problem. People today can’t associate sex/nudity on a screen as art, or even just fun, anymore - because in their minds sex/nudity is inextricably tied to porn. The reality is sex/nudity can be fun, dramatic, scary, or funny depending on the context. It can have a place in many kinds of stories, and comparing it to porn is like saying “we have war documentaries so we don’t need war movies.” They are completely different things!!

It’s disturbing to me that we’re culturally encouraged to find fun in violence but sex needs to be cordoned off to a containment genre and excised from mainstream art.

Sex is too important to be left to porn.

As I said here:

Why does it have to further the plot?! Why does sex/nudity have to justify itself when tons of movies have gratuitous action scenes and violence that add nothing to the plot? 90% of John Wick is gratuitous violence that added nothing to the story (but I still love it). Our culture celebrates violence and we’ll watch people get tortured to death without batting an eye - but if some tits show up on screen then suddenly everyone becomes a critic analyzing whether the story REALLY needed it or not.

It’s disturbing to me that we’re culturally encouraged to find fun in violence but sex needs to be cordoned off to a containment genre and excised from mainstream art. I’m not saying it needs to be in every movie - but its been obvious for a while they’re going out of their way to avoid it, even in places where it would make sense or be fun. I want art to stop awkwardly excluding a major part of life. I want out of this “Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny” Twilight Zone multiverse that all our modern movies seem to take place in.

Sex is too important to be left to porn.

You would hate most Greek mythology

I have strong feelings about this because I miss horny comedies like American Pie, and sexy thrillers like Wild Things. I miss stuff like Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Boogie Nights, Office Space, Eyes Wide Shut, True Lies. They all had sex/nudity in a way that furthered the plot, or was just plain fun. All of the criticisms I see here sadden me:

• "It doesn't further the plot!!!"

It can absolutely be an important part of the story. See the examples above. Look at most of our ancient mythologies. On top of that I pose the question: Why does it have to further the plot?! Why does sex/nudity have to justify itself when tons of movies have gratuitous action scenes and violence that add nothing to the plot? 90% of John Wick is gratuitous violence that added nothing to the story (but I still love it). Our culture celebrates violence and we'll watch people get tortured to death without batting an eye - but if some tits show up on screen then suddenly everyone becomes a critic analyzing whether the story REALLY needed it or not.

• "I don't want to watch that with my kids/parents/coworkers/etc"

I agree. So don't. Some of my favorite movies are raunchy comedies or sexy thrillers that I would never want to watch in polite company. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist! If art were constrained by what you wanted to display in front of your kids/parents/coworkers then our artistic & cultural landscape would be a much bleaker place.

• "We have easy access to porn, I don't need porn in my movies!"

The fact that you only equate sex/nudity to porn reveals a problem. Kids today can’t associate sex/nudity on a screen as art, or even just fun, anymore - because in their minds sex/nudity is inextricably tied to porn. The reality is sex/nudity can be fun, dramatic, scary, or funny depending on the context. It can have a place in many kinds of stories, and comparing it to porn is like saying "we have war documentaries so we don't need war movies." They are completely different things!!

• "It's usually cringey & not done well."

By that logic you could make arguments against a lot of different genres and classic story elements. I don't like the argument that because media these days sucks at doing something they should avoid it altogether. I think they should just do better. Movies in the 80s and 90s proved it can be done.

It’s disturbing to me that we’re culturally encouraged to find fun in violence but sex needs to be cordoned off to a containment genre and excised from mainstream art. I’m not saying it needs to be in every movie - but its been obvious for a while they’re going out of their way to avoid it, even in places where it would make sense or be fun. I want art to stop awkwardly excluding a major part of life. I want out of this "Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny" Twilight Zone multiverse that all our modern movies seem to take place in.

Sex is too important to be left to porn.

"He was a guest on the February 7, 2011 show"

Surely BTN or some other torrent tracker has that episode. I'll look it up after work and report back.