this post was submitted on 08 Aug 2024
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[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Words change meaning over time, this is one of them

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So what about Chinese dumplings then?

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Nothing changed about them, they are still in the dumpling family

[โ€“] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I think it's a modern problem. Bao have traditionally been eaten in soup/stew but a restaurant in Shanghai started calling steamed buns dumplings.

Bao means bag , it's a reference to filling, but dumpling is a reference to how it's cooked.

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I thought bao means bun. That's why you only need to say bao otherwise you are saying bun bun.

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I'd say bao bao and blow their minds

Edit: saying "bao bun" is equivalent to saying "naan bread" or "chai tea"; it's basically saying "bread bread" or "tea tea".

Bao means bun in Cantonese, and bao is a Cantonese food.

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

That's a very American argument. Americans, who use Simplified English, used dictionaries as a political tool in the war of independence and still do

They developed a descriptive dictionary so they can say their usage is just as valid ๐Ÿ™„

but the rest of the world, who use Traditional English, use prescriptive dictionaries so we can have agreed upon meanings and usage.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I can promise you that words changing meaning over time is not an "American Argument". Nothing to say what you mean by "American" (us, Canada, Argentina?) .

Language has changed all the time, via slang from the poorest, or the slang of the royals and powerful people throughout history.

We don't say *dyeu anymore, to refer to the sun-god of proto-indo-european times; we say "Zeus", "deity", "deva" or "Jupiter" (all come from *dyeu).

So I don't think the Americans had any say in that. Language and the evolution of language has happened endless times throughout history.

Example from Language Jones

https://youtu.be/BFgg-Gy0E2g?si=g4rNnyX7eu1DJx60

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Dumpling is a Chinese word though so I don't understand your argument

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

That's the joy of language and language evolution imo. Anyone ever heard of the great vowel shift haha

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yes. The stuff of dinner table conversation in the family. My mum did her masters degree on Old English and Old Norse. Dad spoke fluent cockney, english and lowland scots depending on context. Tell me about it.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Naw. Wish I could invite your Dad to dinner.

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

More than 20 years too late for that as he passed in 2003. Born in 1911. Still miss him.

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Between 1400 and 1700, English went through a major vowel shift that changed the way words were pronounced. The pronunciation of Middle English long vowels changed into how we pronounce them today/has affected English worldwide, and well as consotant changes (silent letters come from this, knife used have the k pronounced, and this can actually still be heard in German as well. Kneipe (German for pub/bar), for eg, is pronounced with the k).

Example, in Middle English the word "house" was pronounced hu:s "hoos". With the Great Vowel Shift it changed to haสŠs "howse".

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I love Middle English. It can look like gibberish at first, but pretend to be drunk & Scottish 98% of it works. The other words are probably Danish.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

My favourite pic displaying the evolution. Middle English is still almost parsable, but old english is basically old German haha

Also the change of implication. In middle English, God sets one down in the pasture, King James says God makes one lie in pastures, but Modern has God allows one to lay in the pasture.

And the change of feohland to pasture. I love this stuff so fucking much.

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I love side by side versions like those! (I did send you that book link?) it makes the changes and similarities so obvious ๐Ÿ˜บ language is fun.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

You did send it to me iirc, I haven't had time to source it but will so after this thread has me on several linguistic rabbit holes haha!

I just checked and it's saved on my wishlist lol

Definitely check out Language Jones on YT, he's a linguist and it's so refreshing to watch someone with such a vast amount of knowledge!

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's a pretty American argument...

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Bruh ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ’€