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Elon Musk’s F-35 ‘idiots’ remark was wrong, says Lockheed Martin boss (www.telegraph.co.uk)

submitted 4 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

114 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Summary

Lockheed Martin UK’s chief, Paul Livingston, defended the F-35 stealth jet program after Elon Musk called it obsolete due to advances in unmanned drones.

Livingston emphasized the F-35’s unmatched capabilities, including stealth, battlefield data-sharing, and cost-efficiency by replacing multiple aircraft types.

While Musk labeled the program overly expensive and poorly designed, Livingston argued drones alone can’t match the F-35’s capabilities or defend against threats like China’s J20 jets.

Despite criticism over cost and reliability, the F-35 remains integral to NATO defenses, with widespread adoption across 19 nations, including the UK.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 days ago (1 children)

it's a superior replacement to about any other plane (with single exception of F-22 for air dominance, but it's not made now anyway) absolute state of the art apex predator in air, and scale of procurement brings costs down

there is a reason why no one makes single-purpose planes anymore and it's degree of flexibility multirole allows, simplified logistics, less number of airframes needed for mission and a couple others. drones are very narrow purpose tools with short range relying on unjammed radio spectrum, or else extremely specialized long range heavier systems available only in small numbers. these things are replacement of ATGMs and cruise missiles, not aircraft. these things don't even come close to each other

[–] [email protected] -3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Let me repeat myself because this keeps coming up,

It's a superior replacement to about any other plane

Sure, if you pretend money doesn't exist? Baseline for getting your money's worth from spending 1.5 TRILLION more than anybody else on development of a type of airplane is that your airplane should be the best airplane of that type.

That doesn't prove that money was well spent, it just proves you have way more money than anybody else to throw at things though I guess the confusion makes sense, we 'muricans have such a very hard time telling the difference between those two concepts.

These massive cost overruns aren't just a single one time strategic failure, like a good modern western tech product the f35 is built to burn money over its entire lifetime by having WAY higher operating costs. Thus the failure is compounded and compounded and as Sun Tzu would point out, the battle has been lost before it even began.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Baseline for getting your money’s worth from spending 1.5 TRILLION more than anybody else on development of a type of airplane is that your airplane should be the best airplane of that type.

and it is

if you read the article:

Before the F-35, if I was going to fly a mission into a peer nation’s territory to strike against a well-protected target, I would need a minimum of 16 aircraft,” he said.

“You would have jamming aircraft – which, by the way, says, ‘Hello, we’re coming’ – then you’d send in suppression of enemy air defence aircraft, because you’d have to kill the radars off, then you’d send fast strike aircraft in.

“I can now do that same mission with four F-35s and no support. And they don’t need protection afterwards, because they can fight their way out.

this is in a war against a peer opponent, like everyone in europe is preparing for. F35 is not a COIN plane, you're looking for something like skywarden there (A10 sucks balls and was outdated the day it appeared on drawing board - you cannot change my mind). advanced aircraft like F35 allows you to both decrease package size and allows you to do things that you straight up can't do without them, and comparing to loads of other older aircraft needed it is cheaper to use the new shiny thing. because of sheer scale of manufacture - 1000 was made and deliveries are 5 years away because demand is so high - development costs will be spread across all of these. both russians and chinese develop their own stealth multirole planes, su-57 and j-20 respectively, chinese additionally are working on stealth bomber, h-20, so it's obvious they see their utility too, unless your conspiracy involves them all.

another random example

you need separate AWACS less because F35 has powerful radar, and it can also double as EW suite so there's less need for dedicated EW aircraft too. without stealth aircraft you can't sneak on your target and if done right this can give you massive advantage

or this one https://mail.ausairpower.net/API-VLO-Strike.html

maybe you're just a fan of human wave tactics in comically obsolete planes like F104 soaking up most probable adversary's SAMs like there's no tomorrow. but don't pretend you know shit about fuck

if you prefer video format https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGwU9HKH_Eo extra details there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH-aJEloMbs