this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2023
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[–] [email protected] 157 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Its only the same if you strictly consider 'the time I stand in this line'.

Its different because everyone behind her loses a feeling of progress from moving up, and it increases the queue length (at least visually) which can impact other people's decision on which queue to join which, of course can impact the other queues.

To think the way the image suggests is to be inconsiderate to others around you.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (4 children)

losing a feeling of progress

Right, that's why it says perfectly rationally. If someone is really being perfectly rational they should only care about how long they wait inine, not a feeling of how long they wait. I don't think being "perfectly rational" is something folks should strive to do.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Fuck everyone else though right? That doesn't sound rational does it? In that case why even wait in the line? Just walk to the front because that will shorten your time

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

Right, it's illustrating the foolishness of endlessly pursuing "rationality", it's not something people should do. I literally said it's not a good thing. Just because something is rational doesn't make it good. Humans are emotional beings.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Nice strawman bro

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Except being rational is not void of emotional reasoning, so "perfectly rational" does not mean "thinking without any emotional logic involved whatsoever". This person isn't thinking rationally, they're just thinking very literally.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think rational in this context doesn't include emotional logic. I see your point though. I'm just saying I think they're using the word differently than you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If it doesn't include emotional logic when humans are fundamentally emotional beings, then it's not rational.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Which is why I think it's clear they're using the term rational differently and not including emotional logic.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think the person's behaviour is rational at all. The queues in an airport are set up like they are for a good reason, to maximize the amount of people queuing in a given area. That is the rational behind the setup.
The person in the picture is ruining the system based in the time being spent queueing. But she is not considering the space taken up by the queue as a whole. Not very rational.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

Being impolite isn't the same as being irrational.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not only is it the same amount of wait time, but you have to pick up and put down your suitcase less times.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

If you can't lift your bags, pack less.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It's not even the same if you strictly consider 'the time I spend in this line', which I would assume is to most people the time that actually matters.

Everyone behind her doesn't just lose the feeling of progress, they lose actual time (granted it's probably just a few seconds). And she loses that time also.

The actual justification here seems to be that she's busy doing something on her phone and doesn't want to be distracted every 30 seconds, which in her mind trumps the handful of seconds she and everyone behind her would gain.
Which imo would be fair enough, if you didn't have to also add the annoyance of the people behind her to the equation.
Many people standing in such queues are tired, stressed about catching their flight, or otherwise impaired and someone holding up the queue for no obvious reason can become aggravating fast.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Unless they considered all of those things and only didn't move because there wasn't any point, which to me is ultimately what staying in place is about.

In that very specific situation, yes it's inconsiderate. We're missing details like how busy the airport is etc so it's a little unfair to point out though.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

the photo is from someone behind her. Even if one person is behind her then she is being inconsiderate to that person by waiting even if the other elements are not present.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I'd argue it's always inconsiderate if there is even one person behind her

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

But it’s just a feeling of progress not actual progress. Whether she moves or not there’s still the same amount of people ahead of you in queue. Plus it’s an airport you queue for the airline that you booked with there’s no decision of queue to impact. The only actual factor is whether or not it spills out past the barriers so she can periodically check and move if that’s the case

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The feeling of progress literally affects how our brains perceive time. We experience it passing more quickly when we are moving and feel like we are progressing. To our brains and our perception of time, it very much is the same as actual progress.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes and the whole point of the post is about pursuing perfect rationality which means only caring about facts and logic not perception.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

True rationality and logic would not dismiss perception. Time is literally relative. How the brain perceives the passage of time and the factors that affect it is a fact of biology. If you perceive time as passing more slowly when you aren't moving, then being forced to stand still will literally make it take longer for you from your frame of reference.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Absolutely… the subjective experience is an objective fact.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Considering the feelings of others is a thing though, and many airlines have multiple queues even for the single airline. I guess it depends on how large the airport is but the consideration of others remains. Traveling is stressful, why add to that just because you can?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yes the point of the post is that a single person acting perfectly rationally will be seen as mad by a civil society which is also perfectly illustrated by people saying “yes that does make sense logically but what about my irrational emotional perception of time?”

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's less work for everyone involved, because they have to pick up their things fewer times.

The length of the line is determined by how many people are in it, not how close they are standing to each other. Being up in the business of the person in front of you doesn't make anything go faster.

Also it would be beneficial to a person joining this line, because it has less people in it compared to other wines of the same apparent length.

So the only people who are actually negatively affected are the ones who join other lines. And the neurotic who get irrationally angry at seeing the gap.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Personally I would rather pick my heavy stuff up for shorter stretches, especially if there's more than I can carry at once. Can you imagine the chaos of her moving forward 20 feet and each person behind her having to carry two bags forward 20 feet and then run back for their other bag/pet carrier/baby car seat? Especially if they don't wait for each other? Or someone tries to help but now the helpee can't say they're the only one who's handled that bag? Dragging everything 3 feet at a time is hugely preferable.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

That ONLY assumes that everyone is perfectly aware enough to not cause the line to extend out of the allotted area, AND nobody misses the fact that the front of the line moved far enough that they never cause a pause at the front. Assuming everyone has the ability to do this means that there shouldn't have been a line in the first place. (and nobody has their face in their phone, like the person in the picture)