this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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Here's how Ukraine was being reported by the West before the war.

Today, increasing reports of far-right violence, ultranationalism, and erosion of basic freedoms are giving the lie to the West’s initial euphoria. There are neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.

These stories of Ukraine’s dark nationalism aren’t coming out of Moscow; they’re being filed by Western media, including US-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE); Jewish organizations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Simon Wiesenthal Center; and watchdogs like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House, which issued a joint report warning that Kiev is losing the monopoly on the use of force in the country as far-right gangs operate with impunity.

Five years after Maidan, the beacon of democracy is looking more like a torchlight march. A neo-Nazi battalion in the heart of Europe

If you whitewash NAZI POGROMS just because you want to beat Russia, fuck you. Siding with far-right fascists to defeat far-right fascists doesn't make you the good guy. There is no lesser of two evils here.

If you dismiss any criticism of Ukraine as Russian propaganda, you might want to ask why the rest of the world, including the West, was concerned about Nazism in the area and then suddenly changed their tune only after the war started.

We should be getting both sides into peace negotiations, not prolonging the bloodshed and providing Nazis with illegal cluster bombs

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (70 children)

I often see criticism of Ukraine lumped in with Russian justifications for invasion, in which case, the war is also warping your views.

providing Nazis with illegal cluster bombs

The US got heat from other supporters of Ukraine for that even. Russia is also using them. Further cause to support peace negotiations.

Especially because the actual reason Russia invaded wasn't over any concern about ethnic Russians in Ukraine (that's literally one of the oldest bullshit excuses for war) was to prevent NATO from being on it's borders, and now Finland and Sweden have joined, so Russia's already lost the geopolitical battle. All they're fighting for now is dirt.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Sure. but that's a lot of dead people to defend the principle of not letting Russia get what they want. We could have said "fine, we won't expand NATO" and either Russia would have backed down or been forced to abandon that "pretense". But we didn't. We got into this dick measuring contest of "Ukraine can join if they want to 😤" and provoked a war. Which we wanted, in order to fight Russia without using American troops. But it's completely to the detriment of citizens in both Ukraine and Russia.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Russia could have stuck with the accepted modern method of Imperialism though, wherein you don't invade countries with armies but instead you use soft power and economic integration. That's what the US was trying to do even in Russia, what with how American Hollywood movies and TV shows being released there and American companies moving in there. It was supposed to change Russian public opinion and enable the subordination of Russian capital to Western capital but Putin was able to co-opt Russian capitalism so when all the Western companies like McDonald's left, there was domestic alternatives.

Problem was the west was more succesful in Ukraine and other former Soviet states, and the Russians losing at that method as Western Ukrainians looked at the EU more and more, feeling culturally closer to Poland than Russia.

We can go round and round over past decisions that are the "real" culprit for war in Ukraine but it won't stop the fighting today. Sure, Ukraine could've surrendered in the first 24 hours and saved lives, but historically speaking, occupations also result in loss of life as the people who didn't want to be part of Russia would still be Ukraine and wouldn't just accept a Moscow-aligned Kyiv government.

The fighting would also stop if Russian troops turned around and went back to Russia, but I think some people are more interested in hurting US foreign policy than they are in peace.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You are unsurprisingly distorting the past. Ukraine circa 2014 had two offers on the table for economic integration, one with the EU and one with Russia. The EU deal demanded the exclusion of Russia, the Russian deal did not demand exclusion of the EU. The sitting President chose the Russian deal, and then there was a west-backed coup that put him out of office and put in someone who would take the EU deal.

The "game" was one that Russia was not allowed to succeed at.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Russia could have stuck with the accepted modern method of Imperialism though, wherein you don't invade countries with armies but instead you use soft power and economic integration.

If you're talking about neocolonialism, neocolonialism still requires boots on the ground. Why do you think AFRICOM has military bases throughout Africa or why jihadist separatist groups like Boko Haram curiously always align with the strategic goals of the US state department? There were Danish troops rampaging around Mali before post-coup Mali told the Danes to fuck off back to Scandinavia. Just because Western troops were "invited" to those countries by neocolonial puppets doesn't mean they don't represent just another form of foreign occupation. At least when Russia invaded Ukraine, you could argue that Russia was trying to safeguard the Russian minority. Not sure what kind of excuse you could pull for French troops in "ex" French colony Niger (despite the coup, French troops are still in Niger).

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