Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
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Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
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Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
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I get it (and I appreciate you posting this) but I'm just not sure how this is "the Left's" fault.
To me, this argument feels similar to all the people who unironically claim all political problems are due to Democrats -- health care, student loan debt, queer rights... apparently never considering Republicans culpable or responsible. One side is the adults that can be blamed for faults and must be expected to do better, and the other side are children who are either ignored or, worse, applauded for doing the bare minimum.
Similarly, I think saying that "the Left has failed men" is a vast oversimplification. The Right is persuasive and doesn't need things like "rightness," "truth," or "morality" on their side. Saying that your problems are due to, say, women or gays is a much easier sell than actually addressing your problems by trying to work on yourself and the masculinity you can interact with.
Politics, on the left and right, is about taking people's struggles and suffering and giving them purpose, meaning, and catalyzing them to action that will improve their situation and society.
The left used to be the party of the people, peaking in the new deal era of the 30's. After the great depression into the baby boomer era and the early 2000's, middle class white men and boys had it pretty good and lost interest in leftist ideology instead adopting to the "got mine" right wing libertarianism typical of the era. The left in this time focused on minorities and women who had a lot to gain from progressive socialist ideology and political action with great success in this front.
With this historical focus on minorities and women it's easy to forget that socialism is about the power of what can be achieved by working together instead of on your own. Young boys and men right now are crying out to join something and work together. Their suffering is caused by the patriarchy and their needs are well aligned with leftist ideology. If we capture them we have a chance at locking down DECADES of strong leftist and progressive policies and putting a full generation of gap from racism and bigotry. If we give up young boys and men to the right we're going to be locked into the current situation where we're barely able to keep fascism at bay.
Just to give some examples, the suffering of young men and boys is broad and spread across many aspects of society from education
To general success in society
To the problems we all share
I could go on, but the point of this list is to show just how well aligned the needs of boys and young men are with socialism and anti-patriarchal ideology. We could have better schools and a more loving and accepting human-centered society for all.
I frankly can't believe the right is winning this fight when they have NO SOLUTIONS TO OFFER AT ALL. Right now all the right is doing is saying "Yes you're suffering. It's society's fault, they repress you because they fear your 'innate superiority'. Come with us and we'll show you what you need to destroy to be happy and reclaim your rightful place" Then they point to all the leftist stuff and vaguely gesture that it's causing suffering without real supporting facts.
I honestly believe that victory is at hand, we just need to grasp it. The only way to lose is to ignore this massive opportunity.
I wholeheartedly agree but I would also argue that F.D. has a similar take at least the way I see it.
I would say he argues that while right grifters are nothing new they were usually not as successful and medially present as they are today. He attributes this to the fact that media engagement is the only metric that counts and that any sharing of a video leads to it being more present in the algorithm. Additionally he argues that in the past most men were able to eventually get a job and support themselves and a family and that with the rise of neoliberalism and worsening wages and inflation the rate of men who are able to do that has shrunk drastically leading to a rise of mental health illnesses but also suicides and other Deaths of Despair. Which have become a somewhat breeding ground for grifters to enrapture more men to their cause with their false promises.
Finally he argues that it is not in the interest to even try to appeal to men the same way the right does as it is - as you have yourself stated - fundamentally antithetical to our causes and beliefs. But that the focus should always be placed on changing the system and being active in our communities. And that changes to the system have to be understood as being beneficial to men as well (duh!).
So I think maybe my framing of his video was a bit too shallow, but thank you for posting your comment. I feel the same way especially in that "the left has failed men" has become an incredible oversimplification for a multilayered problem