this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
59 points (100.0% liked)
the_dunk_tank
15914 readers
7 users here now
It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.
Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.
Rule 3: No sectarianism.
Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome
Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)
Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.
Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.
Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this. Posts that do not meet this requirement can be posted to [email protected]
Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I'm reading the same thing. I think people are upset because they want her to be wrong, but the reality is that if there were to be a revolution in the US, Germany, or UK today, it would undoubtedly result in an openly and unrestrained fascist government. The reason leftism isn't going viral has nothing to do with astroturfing and everything to do with a lack of an effective propaganda strategy given current material conditions. It's possible that there IS no such strategy to be found. In this case, CJ is demanding something impossible, but the correct response is not to say she doesn't get it but rather to actually do the work of attempting to develop a strategy or a theory. I think people are far too hopeful that Western leftists can actually get something revolutionary done.
I think a simple part of the problem is that fascism "has it easy" when it comes to messaging: they get to scapegoat easy targets, and appeal to populism. We do not have the luxury of such easy-to-consume messaging. This is also why our memes get made fun of for being wordy or hard to understand, whereas right-wing memes can be easily distilled to "haha minority bad."
We're also fighting against decades of entrenched liberal propaganda in each individual we try to reach, whereas fascists get to build upon that foundation.
I don't disagree with you, mostly. I just think the conclusion from this has to be that the current outcome of any collapse or revolution will be open and bloody fascism. If we managed to change this and get better at propaganda, maybe we could move the needle to point more towards balkanization of the USA and some regions will be openly fascist and others will be openly communist. But right now, we suck at making things happen and the evidence is what you cite in your comment.
No, leftists dismissed the song before the astroturfing was discovered. After it was found out, it just reinforced what people thought to begin with.
Yes, I understand that. What I am trying to say is that they are dismissing the song's impact as if every view was from a bot, when they are not. Real people are listening to and talking about it.
Who’s saying that? Yeah, there’s no doubt people are listening to the song, but c’mon 9.5 million views in 5 days? I’m sorry, most of those views are 100 percent astroturfed.
You just did, now. I'm saying that we know that not all of those are bot views simply because of the number of people talking about the song, and we shouldn't dismiss its impact because it is absolutely having an impact.