this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
706 points (96.8% liked)
Asklemmy
43945 readers
641 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy π
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The "Covid is over" propaganda. Covid is not over. It is still killing people, still disabling people, still giving people lifelong autoimmune conditions and other long-term health problems. "Covid is over" Is code for "Go back to work so the capitalist class can reap the rewards of your labor, no matter how dead or disabled you become in the process."
I've been struggling with long COVID since I got it a second time in April. It's destroyed my body.
That's really rough. I'm so sorry.
The lab leak theory never had any evidence.
Sorry to be overly harsh. I'll edit my comment.
Honestly it's cool. Personally I try to be very objective, scientific, and factual about stuff, but I've 100% been wrong about things in the past. I think the measure of a person is their ability to admit a mistake in the face of irrefutable evidence against their POV.
Also non scientific bodies have been chiming in to promote the theory. With the whole anti-China thing going on, it's gotten a lot more traction that it should have. If the superstructure wants this idea to become mainstream, it can and did.
That is still a possibility but given the conditions of some of the illegal wet markets in China, it is significantly more likely to have stemmed from one of those. I was reading the book Spillover, which was written before COVID, and they went to some wet markets around where SARS originated and while there were more regulations around wet markets, they were largely ignored. The author basically concluded that it was still a ripe environment for another SARS outbreak.
Investigate fort detrick. At least there was some substance to the accusations against that place
And yeah I was against removing downvotes when it happened, but it truly has only been a boon for site culture
I mean... He did author the crime bill. Dude hung out with white supremacists and was against bussing. Considering the fact that the schools were active all the way up to 1997, that's probably a better simile than you think.
You kinda lost me at the rest, I thought we were just mentioning atrocities. Your point is that we should punish people that hurt kids? Or are you trying to justify the existence of schools that tore away children from their parents due to racist assumptions about "christianizing" children?
Nah it wasn't a typo. Hexbear had a discussion about removing downvotes, I was against removing downvotes, but they were removed anyway. I mentioned that because you spoke on site culture.
I gotta say I don't really see how Biden has made things better. Climate change is still not being taken seriously, were embroiled in yet another war, the military budget has been increased yet again, more people died of covid under Biden, abortion isn't a right anymore, LGBTQ are more threatened, the police has gotten more funding, Europe is entering a recession due to following America's demands of cutting off Russian fuel, the US is pretty likely to enter a recession as well.
If you're interested in these left-wing critiques I'd recommend watching "some more news".
I chose hexbear because it was created by old r/chapotraphouse users in anticipation of the sub getting banned - incidentally for "calls for violence" though the only example Reddit could make was us calling for "death to slavers".
I've stayed here because of its pro LGBTQ-stance and its great and knowledgeful userbase wrt discussions of news and world events. It's the only place where I don't see people take news at face value, but instead investigate the truth of claims - no matter where the claims come from. It's the only place where I've seen such skepticism be hailed rather critiqued
I haven't seen anything about this, could you point me towards someplace where I can learn more? Last I heard he'd crushed the strike, and people were quitting in droves.
His infrastructure bill did also give billions to both Ukraine and the MIC. There's a lot of other critiques that I can't really be bothered to get into right now, but if you're genuinely interested I'd recommend making a post on hexbear asking about it. Though a lot of the users are prickly, they do welcome and enjoy open and honest good-faith discussions, which it is my impression you are seeking.
There were many offramps to handle both the pandemic and the war in Ukraine, neither were inevitable. The alarms about covid were rung early, but ignored. I don't know if you recall but China was mocked by both European and American media for "alarmism" before the pandemic came to their nations.
I'm no fan of trump, but I don't see how we're closer to a nuclear war then than now. Were actively involved in a conflict with a nuclear power that has threatened to use said nukes.
Under Trump the North and South Korea's engaged in peace talks for the first time. The us signed a deal to pull out of Afghanistan. The middle eastern countries begang to engage diplomatically with one another.
I would encourage you to engage with hexbears newscomm and the megathread on it. I would also encourage you to visit the site and continue your discussion as you do now.
Don't worry about it, were several comments deep on a political discussion on a political meme posted on a forum run by Marxists. I could've chosen to disengage or redirect you at any point.
It's been a joy, thank you for an open and good-faith discussion with kind language even when I was prickly.
I sincerely encourage you to visit hexbear and ask questions - either in a post or as a comment to relevant news discussions.
Edit: just saw your edit about the supreme court.
Biden could have gone past the supreme court by enshrining Roe v Wade with executive decisions. The Dems could have enshrined it years ago. Biden could've packed the courts. RBG could've stepped down under Obama, as she was asked to do. There were several offramps.
The fact that none were taken is a sign that the Dems are at best feckless and at worst republicans - either way the result of their rule is the same as a republican government
Pretty sure that Mickey Mouse and Randy Marsh caused it. Shouldn't have fucked that pangolin.
While it's not entirely ruled out, the lab leak hypothesis is looking less and less likely for a variety of reasons. The most likely suspect at this time is a raccoon dog sold at a specific wet market in Wuhan about 7 miles away from the WIV lab. This has not been proven yet either, it's just the most likely, so ultimately we still don't actually know.
There was a deep-dive article about it in the NYT Magazine recently.
It was always bogus and has always been ruled out by anyone even remotely serious. Giving into that theory just feeds racist bigotry. If you wanna get conspiracy-brained then Fort Detrick is a much better bet anyway.
You are a liar and an intellectual coward.
That's a drastic reaction. Did I scratch you, racist?
I just looked into the claims at the time and afterwards. They were led by politicians and they were mocked and critiqued at the time.
it was always just led by us politicians wanting to blame someone other than themselves for their terrible handling of covid.
Of course you already know this, you just want an excuse to say "China bad". You could've posted some sources instead of insulting me, but then again there aren't really anyone credible to post about <3
big emoji
I don't really know what to make of it to be honest. I always knew it would be "over" before all of the circumstances that made it an emergency were over. Actually I was very surprised it continued to be taken seriously for as long as it did at least here in Australia because I assumed political and economic interests would kick in after only a very short while I guess because of my usual cynicism.
However, part of the trouble with the whole thing is that there's no agreement on what over would really mean and no acceptable set of preconditions that could reasonably be set to define it. It's very unlikely we'll ever eradicate the virus, so we need to become endemic, but it's also very contagious and frequently mutates. We can set the threshold of the point at which health services can keep on top of cases but that's dependent on different contexts in different countries and regions and also politics. We can help that along tremendously with vaccines but that has to keep going and be taken by whopping majorities of people forever. Take up was good, but helped in large part by being an emergency and if it needs to be an emergency to achieve that then it will never be "over". It's also difficult because while critics and conspiracy theorists kept pointing out how the mortality rate was comparatively low against other infections diseases, the comparatively heavy (albeit with a shaky start) public measures to combat the disease could be justified by both the numbers of people vulnerable to it making the total number of deaths high and the fact that we posessed means we previously didn't to respond to such a pandemic scenario which made us ethically obliged to do so. That's all entirely reasonable justification for being in a state of varying forms of "emergency" which allowed for temporary and extraordinary measures but it begins to wear away with time as the consequences of the measures begin to manifest their own harms and ironically as our measures begin to see some success.
It's a hell of a problem because diseases just don't fit with the way we go about solving problems which is more like a project with an end date and a budget and a tally of easily identified harms and benefits. Unfortunately it means COVID will inevitably be "over" because we say it is before it ever actually can truly be and it kind of puts us on track for more waves of it and also for forgetting about and leaving behind people still contracting or suffering lasting consequences from it.
But I don't really see a solution. It really does have to be over at some point. People genuinely can't be expected to be worrying about this forever and eventually will tire of caution and tire of restrictions and as well they should since we'd consider it madness to still be in a state of health emergency with temporary restrictions to freedom of movement and business and mandatory medical procedures and constant news broadcasts with the latest case numbers for the Spanish Flu pandemic, it even the 2003 SARS virus.
There are better vaccines and antivirals coming out of the research pipeline. There are generics for Paxlovid coming on the market. In the short-term, mask and ventilate.
Well said. I see a considerable number of people online advocating going back to harsh restrictions, when in real life no one I know asks for that even when they are vulnerable. The reality is that there isn't the public will to go back to restrictions like at the beginning of the pandemic, and the situation is better than it was. It would be impossible to stamp it out anyway, we just need to learn to live with it.
That's probably the only real conclusion to draw from what I said, but I guess not quite what I said. I don't really advocate that nothing should be done but I just can't really see how it could given certain realities and I wonder to what end measures should be undertaken. That's very similar I guess to "we just need to learn to live with it" but there's an important acknowledgement there that I make which is that inaction, while perhaps inevitable, is going to lead consequences that we aren't going to like.
Covid is the third or fourth leading killer in the USA, right after heart disease and cancer, but liberals believe it no longer exists. They are literally killing themselves and everyone around them to keep the line up.
This is why I can't understand hexbear comments.
Who said Covid no longer exists? Except some deluded right-wingers who never believed it existed in the first place, everyone knows it still exists.
Are you wearing an n95 in every indoor public place? If not, your actions say that you no longer believe covid to be an issue. In your mind at least, because covid only affects the old and young and disabled and the poor, it might as well no longer exist.
Life is not black and white as you are trying to make it out to be.
Not true. I know I could get it and suffer. But I no longer wear masks because the probability of that outcome is low, compared to the 100% probability of inconvenience with wearing a mask (fogging up my glasses, for example - I've never been able to stop that problem).
I also know the next time I get into a car, I could be in a very serious life-altering or life-ending crash. But I still ride in cars. Because the odds of a serious crash like that happening are low, and the convenience of riding in a car far outweighs that probability.
Everyone has to gauge their own risk levels for events and decide for themselves what is appropriate.
Do you wear a seatbelt? The sooner you admit to yourself that youβre a eugenicist, the happier youβll be.
Do you use cars? Isn't that being a eugenicist as well since you might kill someone doing it?
And here I thought I'd found the first hexbear I've seen who might argue things in good faith. Nope. I can't wait until we can block whole instances at a user level. You guys aren't adding anything useful to lemmy. Reading the things you post is like reading a "I'm 15 and I know everything" group.
Can you survive without a car (outside of like 2 major cities) in the USA? A better question would also be: can you survive without a mask while airborne AIDS is blowing around and turning people's brains into Swiss cheese? You have at least a 10% chance of getting long covid each time you're infected. And some of these people with long covid are bedridden. Like unable to even turn themselves over in bed. Imagine knowing that you had done that to someone, that you had hollowed out some kid's brain because you thought it was too hard to put on a mask, because it's too hard to conceptualize a world in which we work for each other and help each other rather than our bosses.
Actually, I would love to live in a car-free world. I would love to take trains, buses, and bicycles everywhere. But I can't because of piece of shit liberals like yourself licking the boot of the capitalists who run the fucking USA. Bullet trains might save the planet from climate change, but then how are the investors in oil companies and car companies supposed to pay for their endless vacations? It's such a hard choice! I, too, could be rich someday, even if the whole fucking planet is going to be incinerated long before that ever happens!
I'm 35, I have a spouse and kids, I've worked all kinds of jobs and lived for years in other countries. I'm telling you from my experience that you are placing yourself (and the people around you, including me) in incredible danger, all to help people like Biden and the Democrats who don't give a fuck about you, who are paid to lose, and who think it's weird that you'll do what they want without even being told. But it doesn't have to be this way.
Yeah. The propaganda machine has told them covid is not a problem anymore, and that's what they believe. People are being brainwashed.