this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
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GenZedong
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I always say this event had more impact in the West than in China itself
Well when you memory hole an event as hard as you can so that an entire generation forgets about a bloody crackdown on democratic ideals, sure. It had more of an affect outside of where that suppression happened because people actually remember.
Yeah cuz westerners definitely know more about Chinese history than Chinese people LMAO
Which Chinese people ? The exploited or the bourgeoisie ? Are you being vague because you don't want to discuss this in good faith ?
Someone happens to have a different view on a subject and that means it's time to present the most vapid argument because you know it's gonna get supported.
Even if you support something, most of the time shit's nuanced and doesn't stop at "Chinese know Chinese things more so you're automatically wrong"
Anyway, I don't understand this community, I thought there were gonna be communists here, let's go back to the part where everyone unequivocally supports the regime.
"Am I wrong about communism? No, it's the communists who are wrong!"
That's not what I'm saying, my point is that usually communists are people who took a step back to reflect and question themselves on the world we are living in and I'm disappointed to see the same herd mentality you see everywhere else where anything that isn't coming from inside that echo chamber is rejected outright. There are many "flavours" of communism and we should be able to have a healthy discussion between different communist groups but I don't see that anywhere.
This is exactly what we did and you are reading the effect of it. It's not like the event was yesterday, we had a lot of time to think on it.
We had a lot of time to think on this too, and we rejected the utopian and reactionary flavours of communism. And we are not having a healthy discussion because you ride here on a horse higher than stars and you shower us with being confidently ignorant about us. If you really want to know something, ask. You just need to ask in good faith, not the usual liberal method of "did you stopped beating your wife", that will only get you ridiculed, because we seen way too many of types to lose too much time on them.
Poetry.
"Am I wrong about communism? No, it's the communists who are wrong!"
You should stick around and have a look what it's like when communists argue among themselves. At the moment it seems that you have a preconceived notion of what Marxist discussion looks like. I assume that means you haven't met many Marxists, which is common except in communist countries.
There are many things we have already reached agreement on, such as that something like 99.9999% of westerners are completely clueless about China and communism.
They don't want to know. They don't know what historical or dialectical materialism is, if they've even heard of the terms. They don't care for political economy (even their own liberal version of it). Otherwise they would be willing to look past what they have been taught and objectively weigh and consider new evidence.
Notwithstanding that the evidence isn't new; it just never generally reached the western public. Be confident that your ruling class knows what really happens/ed. There are over 150 years of Marxist literature that you very likely have never encountered or understood as Marxist. We're not just making things up or coming to conclusions based on vibes or predetermined notions of who's right or wrong (morally or otherwise).
Marxism begins with the concrete analysis of concrete conditions. If you have some new concrete evidence for us, by all means share it and we will arrive at fresh conclusions. It better be rigorous evidence, though, or it will be dismissed.
It's up to you whether you want to learn but if all you do is call us drones for accepting conclusions reached after years of research and struggle sessions, you're going to be disappointed.