this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 year ago (9 children)

It's not supporting Russia to be critical of one-sided narratives or to call for peace for the sake of minimizing loss of life.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Russia is welcome to GTFO at any time.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The war was already going on before Russia sent troops in.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And that makes it okay for them to escalate it, how?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ukraine escalated by violating the ceasefire. Russia escalated further by sending in troops. I didn't say it's "okay," but the blame isn't just on their side.

If Russia wanted to ensure the safety of the people of Donbas (which is a big if tbf), what should they have done differently, at any point leading up to the conflict? Because I'd like to condemn Russian escalation, but it's a little hard for me to do so if I don't have an answer to that question.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ukraine escalated by violating the ceasefire.

Which one(s)? There were so many from 2014 onwards that I lost track. I'm always skeptical anytime one side gets all the blame for violating a ceasefire.

If Russia wanted to ensure the safety of the people of Donbas (which is a big if tbf), what should they have done differently, at any point leading up to the conflict?

If it really is about the people of Donbas and not annexing the land itself, they could have done what every country is supposed to do when the safety of people in a region is jeopardized – open their borders to refugees and asylum seekers. It would piss off Ukraine, but they could have just been like "Come across the border and we'll set you up with a Russian passport".

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (40 children)

Which one(s)? There were so many from 2014 onwards that I lost track. I'm always skeptical anytime one side gets all the blame for violating a ceasefire.

Minsk II was the one I was referring to, but it's a fair point.

If it really is about the people of Donbas and not annexing the land itself, they could have done what every country is supposed to do when the safety of people in a region is jeopardized – open their borders to refugees and asylum seekers. It would piss off Ukraine, but they could have just been like "Come across the border and we'll set you up with a Russian passport".

Ok, let me rephrase that then. Do you believe that the people have Donbas have a right to self-determination and representation in government, and that that right would include having some possible roadmap to joining Russia, or should they be forced to either go along with whatever the new government wanted or abandon their homes and flee the country? Because I think that a lot of this mess could've be avoided if Ukraine had simply given them a referendum, but instead they banned opposition parties, which says to me that they knew how the people there would vote.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

They did do that. My coworkers aunt was finally granted Russian citizenship and was ecstatic. They granted citizenship to a number of refugees in the war.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Right, Ukraine was fighting corruption. Russia entered on the side of... corruption.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Fighting corruption" is an interesting way to describe sustained artillery bombardments of civilian targets.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hoo boy wait til you see what Zelenskyy was up to.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why are you defending oligarchs?

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Seems like you are. Zelensky was in the paradise papers

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm not sure what that has to do with shelling cities, are you suggesting he was hiding in one of the buildings or what?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago

Look, the heckin' wholesome slava ukrainis didn't know where he was so they had to shell everywhere! It's like playing Battleship, except it's mostly other random innocent people that you hit

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Yes, but the liberal pro-EU protestors got sidelined by literal neo-Nazis. The following President was basically handpicked by the US Ambassador. There's plenty of western media from 2015-2021 about the integration of Azov into the Ukrainian military structure, the rehabilitation of World War II collaborators, and the suppression of the Russian language. The people of the East are, in principle, just as entitled to wish to join Russia as western Ukraine is to join the EU.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Ohh won't someone think of the poor invading war criminals!

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

Ukrainians are dying too, including ones drafted against their will. Maybe you should fight in their place before asking them to die on your behalf.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

History started in feb 2022

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

? We have tho? My country has sent like $80 billion dollars so far to the invading war criminals.

Free the Donbass red-fist

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's not so one-sided as you think. Ukraine used civilians as human shields https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/07/19/zrjy-j19.html

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