this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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Asklemmy
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In a society like you described money would be created. First as bartering and then eventually a form of money will start to exist.
The anthropology on the origins of money have shown that this is false. Money was introduced by force, and barter only occured in societies that previously had money then lost it (so, money-oriented societies). It is a myth that money creates itself. I'd love to refer you to resources if you're interested on reading further (I have to dig them up from my notes).
There would not even be a need to create money. If your needs are already met, why would you still engage in exchanging already-abundant resources? Why would I give up my carrots to get your apples, when I can just go and pick some apples from the apple storage or a grocery store?
Hey, I would like the reasources you mentioned if it's not too much hassle for you.
Below I linked an article that cites a couple of sources on this matter.
For a more in-depth reading, I'd highly recommend "Debt: The first 5000 years" by David Graeber. He has a ton of sources cited there too.
Article (12ft.io link to avoid paywall):
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Fbusiness%2Farchive%2F2016%2F02%2Fbarter-society-myth%2F471051%2F
Thanks a lot, comrade!
Happy to help!! And great to meet you :)
Because i would take all the apples. And the carrots. And if you wanted some you would have to barter with me. If you didn't, then you would not have all your needs met.
Because people are not intrinsic good.
If you fail to take that into account then your idea is flawed.
You really think an entire society revolved around bettering the human condition wouldn't have guard rails against some random self destructive idiot going rogue?
In general though, no one has the motive to do that (except a self destructive idiot, who we'd just put in rehab and hope they get better).
Also you probably lack the means to take all the apples. The world already produces more than double the amount we consume. I guarantee you have no capacity to take them all.
I'm sorry, I know you thought that was really smart of you, but it's not a good look.
my neighborhood has multiples of me. we are now a group.
Yeah sure. We cannot take all the apples out of cincinatti. But i can take all the apples from my town. Especially if i convice other people that are powerhungry like me. Narcisism and sociopathy exist, never forget that.
And on what grounds would you put me in rehab? Because i did what makes me feel good?
I take care of all the stuff nobody wants to do.
I clean the drains, i upkeep all the things you use for leisure.
People are lazy and would rather barter with me than to overthrow me. If they did, someone would have to wade through the shit all day.
Kings and Queens did not have a real reason why they should be in power. They created their own reasons and used all their ressources to keep everyone down.
You surely have the Hollywood infested brain lmao
What about having terroristic aspirations? LOL. Trust me, no society will ever depend on you. You'll always remain disposable
Yah, totally infested. So unresonable to think that history repeats itself and your imaginary utopia has flaws.
I don't think you understand that no member of society will take it kindly to see someone trying to destroy their society. It is terrorism and they will stop you no matter what. No one looks at a random hauling a grocery stores worth of apples and thinks that's okay.
They want barter you for it. They'll take it by force if necessary.
Uhuh... When are we going to see these riots? The US has the 2nd amendment and no guns are being raised against tyrants...
How do you explain republicans? People who write loveletters to mass murderers?
You don't have trillions of dollars worth of weapons to use on us, so you're much more likely to be "taken out" than the current government.
Who says I don't? I already took all the apples.
You are asking why people aren't changing a status quo. That's different from changing a status quo to a much worse one.
Do you think I will be the only bad apple? Do you have any idea how much crime we have that is not for the purpose of meeting someone's needs?
Are you still in school?
The idea of utopias like you described always falls apart at the human aspect.
There is no way to just numb everyone's brains to the point that we eliminate jealousy, envy and judt general "societal bads". What do you do with the huge amount of religious zealots that claim apples for their religion? People who are judt power hungry? Drug addicts? Alt-rights? People who want money?
Politicians? Anarchists?
I am not the only group that wants all the apple. As soon as i take some apples for me someone else will become jealous and retaliate and satisfy their felt unfairness by taking even more. Are we just gonna kill or put half of the population in rehab?
You assume that the system will have no self resistance. Every system does, except this one will be protecting society's interests as a whole rather than a ruling class. Everything you said still applies today, and we handle it perfectly (and its not because society is oriented around capital).