this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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I disagree with the trump trials. They are politically charged and set a precedent of arresting your political opponents. I'm not saying he's innocent or guilty but we should consider the bias
Did you read the indictment? If not, you should. It's not long, and it's easily digestible. They make a very solid case that Trump knowingly, intentionally held onto some of the most sensitive national security documents that we have, knew he wasn't allowed to have them, lied about having them, and tried to hide them even from his own lawyers. Meanwhile, he had them stored in some of the least secured places imaginable.
So what do you think the feds should do? Don't you think not holding someone accountable for that is terrible? And you realize they used a special counsel for the investigation - that's a role specifically designed to be independent from any political bias or manipulation.
Dude he stole highly, highly classified material, didn't give it back when asked, lost some it, and had it stored in a bathroom.
That's far beyond politically charged. Read the indictment. Not all charges brought to politicians are theater. This is absolutely one of those times
1)Read the indictment. There is a tape where he breaks the law and then acknowledges that’s it’s illegal and proceeds to break the law more. That single law has a sentencing guideline of 10 years.
https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/06/trump-indictment.pdf
2)special council is insulated from AG and WH
3)the judge is a trump appointee
4)It doesn’t set a precedent for shit. He broke the law. He will have his day in court.
Anything around Trump is politically charged. That doesn't give him carte blanche to flagrantly break the law.
If not a trial, then what should be done if he is suspected of a crime? Just ignore it?
Obviously they should account for the feelings a large group of people that might be taken back by everything that is happening. Or maybe the suspected should just ensure that nuclear secrets aren't left laying around willy nilly :)
He’s a former president. Obviously it’s going to be politically charged, that’s unavoidable. But what’s the alternative, you just get away with crimes because you ran a country once? It’s not as if Biden personally ordered his arrest…
I’m sorry, but do you believe that Joe Biden personally had trump arrested? lmao
Dark brandon is coming for all of your nuclear secrets. Especially those that you forgot in a bathroom.
Do we even really have freedom if I can't store nuclear secrets in my shower?
The only nuclear secrets in my bathroom are after chipotle.
The other option is the disintegration of rule of law into rule by law, where rule is used by the powerful as a weapon to attack ordinary people, but they themselves are above the law.
The Roman Republic had a term for someone who is placed above the law to achieve a specific purpose with high priority (like holding an election): dictator. The office of dictator was rarely given out, and only for a limited period of time and for a specific purpose, because people were scared of abuse of the power of being above the law. When Julius Caesar consolidated enough political power to get whatever office he wanted, he chose dictator - and he literally brought down the republic, and tarnished the term 'dictator' to the extent that those that followed him chose to use the office of Imperator (later Emperor) to describe what they do instead of dictator.
So should a political candidate who lost an election but is running again be given the same powers as a dictator in the Roman Republic? And be allowed to act with absolute impunity? I'd argue no, if they break the law they should be held to the same standards as everyone else. Obviously, he should be given a fair trial, and all the usual protections to ensure that he is only convicted of things he actually did though.
Umm, just fyi... Imperator is Latin (you know, the language the Romans spoke) for emperor... And emperor is English for imperator...
I think the intent of the comment was to note how the word changed over time, not that Romans went from calling them Imperators to Emperors.
What kind of dumbass opinion is this? Get elected into something and then you're immune to all crimes?... Fuck outa here.
Bias of? I've read the indictment and it seems pretty straightforward.
They feds gave him a massive amount of opportunity to remedy the issue and has not been charged at all in any way for anything that he gave back. It's only the stuff that he retained after over a year of lying and refusing for which he's being charged. They practically broke their backs twisting around and trying to be as accommodating as possible to give him every possible chance, vastly vastly more patience than if literally anybody else on the planet had done the same, and still he didn't hand it back.
Imagine if he walked out of Target with a TV he didn't pay for, but instead of tackling him or grabbing it they sat there watching as he loaded into is car. They sent him letters as he had people over and told everyone that he got it for free.
Seriously, Trump had classified marking envelopes on display at the bar in Mar-a-lago. We know for a fact he was showing documents to people like the Discord guy. He stole nuclear secrets. He stole national defense information. None of the crimes he's been charged with even require the documents to be explicitly classified, it's enough that the sensitive nature of the documents is sufficient to make possessing them a crime. And yet he kept them by the shitter.
What would unbiased accountability look like to you? If the roles were reversed, Trump would be shouting "Lock him up!" in front of crowds every day. No one is doing this to him now (except in jest), because it's expected that his trial be fair.
Read the full indictment. It's clear he understood what he was doing was illegal and he didn't care, and it's clear he was aware it was not in the country's best interest. He was given many chances to make it right and failed to do so. He's been treated more fairly than he'd have done to his political opponents.
He needs to be held accountable. He put himself above the country, and it can't happen like this again. If a federal trial in front of a red state jury isn't fair, I don't know what would satisfy you.
I think it would set an extremely bad precedent if we made it that you can never arrest or try former presidents. Being able to try and hold the president to justice brings us closer to the national ideal of the president being a servant of the people, allowing them to act with legal impunity would bring us closer to the president being a dictator or a king.
I'm not saying that presidents should have a get out if jail free card. However the trials feel a lot like left vs right to me.
Then it’s clear you’ve either not paid any attention to the goings on the last 7 or 8 years, or you’re being disingenuous.
If it’s left vs right to you that implies to me you see it as
the left - justice and accountability
the right - grift, fascism, “fuck you i got mine”
Wanna know a secret? you wont be a millionaire.
Trump is neither Merrik Garland's nor Jack Smith's "political opponent". The DOJ is supposed to be an independent entity that does not take direction from the president. Conservatives seem to forget that because of the way Donny Double Indictments and Bill Barr ran the DOJ. Donald did crimes, this one is catching up with him. Yall need to hang up your jersey's eventually...
Oh god I wish there is a downvote button here.
yeah that's one major downside to lemmy. Forced to see these sort of braindead takes lol
It's up to the instance admins to choose if they want to present the downvote button. Use another instance.
Honestly, I kind of like if. Stops it from becoming an echo chamber. Refreshing to hear pure, unhinged lunacy, too.
r/conservative is still up and Twitter still exists. I don't need to see that crap here too.
lol. I mean yeah I get what you are saying, but I know these people exist already because our own politicians are saying the same thing.. Completely ignoring the indictment and that this is just an attack blah blah.. Yet they wont comment on the actual charges. Sad really. Good chance for everyone to talk about how justice will prevail one way or the other through our justice system and that no one is above the law. Instead they are literally saying that the ex president is literally above the law. Need a RL downvote button
I'm using Jerboa and I have a downvote button. I haven't used the browser version much. Does it not have one?
Some instances have the downvotes enables some don't.
I got one over here at iusearchlinux.fyi! In fact it's one of the reasons I chose this instance.
The other being haha funny true meme instance name.
EDIT:
Here is a list of instances and what capabilities they each have enabled
https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances
? I have one. That comment is currently 5 up and 4 down.
Obviously the trial is going to be charged, as what is happening is unprecedented. Just because it's charged doesn't mean that it is driven by one party party wanting to wipe out their opposition.
In a country with proper separation of power, the juridical system is generally considered independent from the political executive branch. Obviously US has some exceptions to that rule with some judge appointments and such made by government officials, but generally the rule holds true.
So what your saying is presidents should be able to do whatever they want just because they're politicians.
Well no but I am concerned that is will become a pattern. Trump has already stated that he will prosecute biden if he is reelected. I doubt he is going to be reelected but its possible a republican controlled Congress should decide to take biden to court.
I obviously don't support policially charged trials but some conservatives do
Idk, from my point of view this looks like a result of the DOJ noticing they were missing classified documents and, after attempting to get them back via the usual means aking official requests, they had no choice but to initiate legal action in order to get them back.
Honestly, I doubt the current government had much involvement of at all in this case. Every previous president after receiving official requests for documents in their possession has returned said documents, trump is the first to not do so, and to actively (according to evidence) obstruct the DOJ from regaining said documents.
More likely the politically charged situation, and the current widening political divide has actually made it harder to prosecute this case - One wrong or hasty move at the wrong time and you've got the potential for a even worse repeat of Jan 6th on your hands.
Trying to prosecute a case where the defendant has built a cult of personality around himself is incredibly difficult and infuriatingly so, as the people that make up that cult believes everything said defendant says, and refuses to look at the facts even if they're right in front of them with blaring sirens and flashing lights, doing an Irish jig.
Laws don't care about biases. He didn't break the law because he was Republican, he broke the law because he's a moron. And then he said it on tape. And also on that tape, he said he was breaking the law, and explained how he was doing it.
The simple solution for not getting arrested by political opponents is...don't break the law. I do it every day and I'm yet to be arrested.