this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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Palestine

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Context on the music festival:

  • it took place near the kibbutz of Re'im
  • Re'im is the location of the Re'im military base
  • the military base is the headquarters of the Gaza Division of the IDF.
  • even Wikipedia says the "Re'im Festival Massacre" took place during the battle for the Re'im base.

Can't imagine rolling face directly between the world's largest prison camp, and the guards that kept them there.

No shit the militants headed directly for Re'im.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Aight, I'm gonna call it, I'm done looking for sources for now.

I don't buy:

  • that the music festival incident was solely a direct attack on civilians.
  • that it was a slaughter with no fighting.
  • that the professional army that went through the festival ground was there only to intentionally target civilians.

Every source seems to agree that there were 260+ bodies recovered, with no distinction between idf & civilians. That seems like a pretty low total from the 3500 that were reportedly there.

I'll buy:

  • that militants rolled through the festival and intentionally shot/hurt some number of noncombatants (clearly that's bad, I'll admit that).
  • that there was some sort of firefight/battle between idf/security and the militants.

I've seen lots of video of people running and screaming, with shots in the background, but that's it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

“Around 6:30 in the morning we started hearing explosions,” Gaster says. ... Gaster says that at this point, festival security advised everyone to get down on the floor and put their hands above their heads for protection. But after 5-10 minutes, Gaster says, “the policemen shouted in the microphones, ‘Okay, get in your cars and go.'” ... “The moment the policemen said ‘go now,’ I ran,” Gaster recalls. “I didn’t wait, because we know it’s a rocket attack. You need to act quick.” ... By the time Gaster and the others made it to a villa rented by the production team, located approximately 30 kilometers away from the festival, they had started getting texts and phone calls telling them that minutes after they drove away from the site, Hamas fighters had arrived “with machine guns, with RPGs, with grenades, and just slaughtered whoever they could.” ... Gaster and those he was with turned the villa into a command center, contacting IDF, other Israeli security services and “all of our friends that we know personally that have firearms that have connections that can go there.” ... Gaster says it took IDF and special forces a few hours to arrive on site, with those who were there attempting to defend themselves in the meantime. “At the party there was already a police force, like any licensed party,” Gaster says, “and they were the first ones to try to give assistance by fighting… We are Israelites, so most of us have military experience, and a few from the production managed to kill some terrorists with their bare hands and their weapons.” Gaster says a person from the festival killed two of the attackers after taking their guns. Gaster says he and the team at the production villa were being sent on-site locations from various attendees and then sending these locations to this person, who then went to help these attendees. ... While Gaster had just arrived to his home in the north of Israel when Billboard spoke with him at around 1 a.m. local Israeli time (he says the IDF controls most of the area between where he was and where he lives, so he felt safe to drive home), he says that amid the chaos they are all “still trying to find any signs of life.”

Raz Gaster was an Artist Manager for the festival. So in summary:

  • armed police (most with military experience) were present from the start of the music festival and were the first Israeli force to fight against Hamas militants during the attack
  • a few minutes after the rocket attack, the festival's production team sped to a villa they'd rented, located 30km away from the party and in territory controlled by the Israeli army
  • the production team turned the villa into a "command center" to mobilise Israeli soldiers, security services, and armed Israeli citizens towards the festival site Hamas was occupying
  • members of the production team were armed, and killed Hamas militants "with their bare hands" (?) and with their guns
  • one festivalgoer "killed two of the attackers after taking their guns" (how?)
  • various attendees conveyed locations (of militants?) to the production team at their "command center", which they then relayed to this armed individual (who already killed 2 Hamas militants) to help those attendees who conveyed the locations
  • Gaster then drove from their command center, to his home in the north of Israel the following night/early morning, and was interviewed by the media

Source: https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/israel-music-festival-attack-artist-manager-account-massacre-1235436829/

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Thanks for finding this, and thank you for the summary!

It seems like the mainstream narrative that's been propagated is almost fully a lie.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's hard to know what's real but I saw a video of soldiers ducking and diving between the festival goers while shooting at Hamas.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh wow, I haven't seen that, but it makes sense.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It might be what's discussed in the article linked below, because there seemed to be a tank at the beginning. Tbh the Israelis seem quite disorganised. It's not like they're grabbing civvies to hide behind. More like they're just as scared as them. That would make sense for people who've signed up as security at a festival mainly to watch people dance, break up a few fights, and prevent unarmed people going on a stage. I don't really know what uniforms the IDF or Israeli police usually wear, though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Was it the guys in blue with pistols? I saw that one, and I agree with you there.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Yes, that sounds right. They weren't in camo or anything.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

AP article on the festival:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-music-festival-6a55aae2375944f10ecc4c52d05f2ffe

I don't see anything that counters the idea that there was a battle there, with civilian casualties caught up in it. Notably, it looks like a Palestinian medic(?) touches base with a potentially wounded fighter about halfway through the video.

No indication that a mass shooting at the festival was a primary target.

Hilariously ironic quote:

“I can’t even explain the energy they (the militants) had. It was so clear they didn’t see us as human beings,” she said. “They looked at us with pure, pure hate.”.

Edit: the BBC claims the guy I thought was a medic is looting dead bodies. On a second watch that seems likely.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

BBC article that talks about the time frame and the footage from the AP article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67056741

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Can anyone help with an unpaywalled version of:

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/10/10/how-a-rave-party-near-gaza-turned-into-a-horror_6161957_4.html

Archive.org leads to a cookies acceptance page, and 12ft.io doesn't seem to work. The bit I can read has details about armed security and a tank at the entrance to the festival.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They were then joined by an Israeli Merkava tank. Equipped with a powerful 120 mm cannon, this tank was of no use at the time, except as a refuge thanks to its armored plating. Dozens of participants took cover behind it, along with some of the police. Bullets rattled. The assailants were there.

The article seems to say that the tank was there before Hamas. So maybe the ravers were caught in the crossfire.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

That's how I read it as well.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

From the preview:

People were smiling. Videos taken by those attending captured the scene. At around 6 am, in the distance, plumes of smoke appeared in the sky. Rockets that were fired from the Gaza Strip were intercepted by Israel's Iron Dome, its anti-aircraft system.

How much of a warning do you need?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

You're a fucking champ, thank you!