this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2024
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askchapo

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Questions from a "lib" (self.askchapo)
submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by BumpingFuglies to c/[email protected]
 

I keep seeing posts from this instance referring to capitalists as liberals. Since when are capitalism and liberalism related? As far as I've always known, liberalism is a social ideology, while capitalism is an economic system.

Why do y'all refer to all capitalists as liberals when at least half (probably more, at least in my experience) are conservatives?

I, for example, consider myself a liberal, but I'm most certainly not a capitalist. I'm stuck in a capitalist society in which I have to play by the rules if I want to feed my family, but that's as far as my support for the system goes. I'm pretty sure a lot of Americans feel this way.

Looking it up, the definition of liberalism specifies a belief in maximum personal freedom, especially as guaranteed by a government. Considering that 90% of governments in the world are endlessly corrupt, capitalist or not, I'd much prefer one that guarantees its citizens rights as a matter of course rather than begrudgingly grants them privileges that can be taken away without public oversight.

Do y'all really trust your governments to look after your best interests? As a U.S. American, I know I wouldn't trust my government or politicians to do anything but enrich themselves at my expense, but I don't have to; my rights are guaranteed by our constitution.

Now if we could just get them to stop funding and committing genocide...

EDIT: So many incredibly well thought-out and researched responses! I have a lot of reading and thinking to do, so thank you all for your input. I'll likely be referring back to this post for a while as I learn more about the world outside my U.S.-centric bubble. My biggest takeaways from all this after a quick perusal of the replies are that liberalism has a very different meaning outside the U.S. and has a lot more to do with private property, especially land ownership, than I'd thought.

My time is limited and there are so many responses that I likely won't be replying to (m)any any time soon, but know that I appreciate all the knowledge bombs y'all have dropped.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 9 months ago

Liberalism is the name of the theory/ideology behind capitalism, which was codified over the 18th and 19th centuries. This might be confusing for Americans because the word "liberal" has come to colloquially mean "socially progressive" there. Why is it called that? Because the old bourgeois intelligentsia preached things like personal liberty and freedom (for themselves at least), which mostly manifested itself in the right to own private property (which is not to be confused with personal property!), positioning themselves against the old aristocratic regime. The "social" and the "economic" aspects are not separated and they cannot be separated. Both "progressive" liberalism and neoconservatism are modern offshoots of the same liberal ideology, which is why Marxists continue to use the term "liberal" to mean "capitalist ideologue or apologist".
Marxists recognize that the kind of freedom that liberals preach is a sham. It's freedom for the bourgeoisie to exploit the workers and to hoard resources for themselves while depriving most of the population of the goods that they themselves (the workers) produce. Bourgeois elections are also a sham because the candidates merely represent different sections of the bourgeoisie, usually one which is slightly more socially progressive (and which becomes less socially progressive every election) and which maybe offers more concessions to working class people (a very unpopular policy among the bourgeoisie), and another which is usually socially conservative/reactionary.
We Marxists also stress that governments are not neutral entities of abstract power, but they have a class character. Capitalist countries have governments ran by their ruling class, the bourgeoisie. The bourgeois state is used as a weapon of class warfare, producing things like propaganda, giving concessions to the working class when they absolutely have to, and otherwise using violence to keep their populations in check, all while pursuing the best interests of the ruling class. A socialist government would instead look after the interests of the people, but the current US government only looks after the interests of the rich.
That's the gist of it. English is not my first language, so if anything is confusing, feel free to reply and I'll respond.