anime

Or maybe I'm totally wrong. idk, because I don't want to watch 40 hours of miserably nihilist murder porn written by someone who pretty obviously hates humanity.

no you're right, the author is a Nazi, and the manga ends with the blond kid thanking eren jaeger for committing genocide

AoT is fascist. The author is a douchebag and the general principle of the entire show can be related to Japan as a humiliated former empire. The general premise is supposed to be that they have been humiliated and trapped on their tiny island by the rest of the world and only through absolutely unmitigated extreme violence can they possibly break out and reclaim their place in the world. The show presents this as a bad thing that is ultimately necessary and that there is no other possible way.

A lot of people mistake the show for loose ww2 factions, ignoring the fact that a socialist faction is clearly not present at all. The show makes significantly more sense when you relate it to modern Japan and map it to what current ultranationalists and those sympathetic to the japanese empire feel about their past place in the world.

The Marleyan Blood nonsense is just mapping "the jews did this to us" into it all.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong. idk, because I don't want to watch 40 hours of miserably nihilist murder porn written by someone who pretty obviously hates humanity.

No, you're not wrong. It's at best . And as we know, libs are just the moderate fascists.

The anime tried to be a bit more critical of Eren, but it's ultimately very "nothing REALLY matters" lib/libertarian coded. The fact that even Eren's genocide doesn't actually do anything is a silly fucking cherry on top of a silly series.

Big Joel made the argument that The Lion King is fascist, as it portrays the hyenas as a race who have to be kept out of our territory because, due to their ravenous, insatiable nature, they will inevitable turn any area into a barren wasteland were they to be let in. And the movie validates that, as once Scar takes power, the hyenas do just that. It makes it clear that there is no peaceful coexistence with the hyenas.

And then Big Joel says that nevertheless, The Lion King "objectively slaps". I forgot what his exact point was but the AoT discourse kinda reminds me of that.

For my next trick I will explain why Fullmetal Alchemist; Brotherhood is apologia for the crimes of Imperial Japan

Yeah, Attack on Titan is fascist drivel - I love pointing out to fans that Erwin is literally named after Rommel & Pixis is basically Yoshifuru Akiyama; but I don't buy this lol.

I dropped it when I got to the ghettos with armbands.

At BEST it’s a hack series at that point.

But when you get into it - the Eldians ARE dangerous, as they can be mind controlled and turned into giant monsters.

They are fundamentally incompatible with the rest of humanity, as it just takes a single whim of their leader to set off a nuke.

Marley being greedy and evil and using the Eldians as shock weapons was wrong, and so was Titan-ifying them and dumping them on paradisio.

But the kings plan to keep the peace would eventually fail if the power made it to someone with strong will and hate.

This was a story setup to enforce a fascist worldview.

What you’re attributing to diegetic essentialism is the Thermian argument: using in-universe lore to deflect criticism. Slightly different thing.

Diegetic essentialism is when people (including leftists) flatten all meaning in a work in order to put media into boxes. The examples given in sigmarxism are Beasts of Chaos and Tau being written with superficial anarchists/communist aesthetics, so therefore BoC are anarchists and Tau are communists. (Neither of those things are true)

We do this because we need to let our in-group know that we’re watching the “correct” media, that we’re completely unproblematic because the media that we consume is completely unproblematic. (It doesn’t work that way)

Let’s use Attack on Titan as an example

I think it’s somewhere in season 3-

There’s a moment where the main character, who’s basically spent his whole life being taught to hate a dehumanised enemy, finds out that the “monsters” who destroyed his life are people exactly like him, scared children who were also taught to hate a dehumanised enemy: him.

And that shoe dropping makes such a potent anti-fascist message, because it lays bare in narrative form exactly how fascism fails, how it warps and distorts history in order to perpetuate a lie, because we’ve been with Eren from the start and seen his journey, and his shock at this revelation is echoed in the shock of the audience. It’s legit good storytelling.

And if AoT ended right there things would’ve been fine, but oh well.

My reading of AoT: AoT is the single most incompetent anti-fascist story ever told, that it warps right back around into endorsing fascism and anti-Semitism. This is because Isayama is a liberal: the moral of his story is “an eye for an eye makes the whole world genocided”, which is an idealist idea of fascism, a child’s understanding of fascism. Eren revealing himself to be a petulant manchild committing genocide because he’s afraid of losing his mother figure is supposed to be tacit condemnation, but Isayama still lets him get away with genocide, like the liberal he is. We’re just supposed to feel bad about it.

Anyway, going back to diegetic essentialism: anyone who asks “Is X piece of media ______” is deeply unserious and more often than not simply looking for validation of their own political beliefs. Art/media criticism is about deeply and seriously examining human subjectivity, to explore what that tells us about the world we inhabit and the people who inhabit it. Within us there are multitudes, and not even authors have the authority to dictate the meaning of their works- we have to determine that meaning for ourselves.

Interesting read, even if I had no opinion on AoT since I haven’t watched much of it nor engaged in the discourse at all. Not necessarily because I’m averse to le grimdark (I like Berserk so…) but because the whiplashes of trying to shock you by showing established characters getting eviscerated in gruesome detail got old past the first Titan attack.

I will say I like you pointing out how something so obvious as authorial intent is almost always overlooked by defenders of a given piece of fiction.

For my next trick I will explain why Fullmetal Alchemist; Brotherhood is apologia for the crimes of Imperial Japan

As someone who loves that anime and has rewatched it on a couple occasions, I hate the way the Ishvalan genocide is handled with a passion.

For my next trick I will explain why Fullmetal Alchemist; Brotherhood is apologia for the crimes of Imperial Japan

Yes please

Also, +1 on the mention of diegetic essentialism

Is ______ fascist?

Let's just assume yes

There was this young guy at the last big march for Palestine in DC back in February who had a big custom made Palestinian flag but with the logo on it

It was extremely based so I had to complement him on it and we talked for a bit

He said he was having one made with an AoT logo next and I couldn't help but feel conflicted

Eldians being stand ins for Jews has been a red flag since the basement reveal, even before the manga took such a massive turn for the worse there was always the potential for this to be handled poorly

That said, I think there are multiple layers. Paradis Island represents at least 5 different countries as far as I can tell, and being the obvious ones to anyone making the case for the show being fascist (which it probably is, even if incoherently so) but I'd argue Cuba, the DPRK and are all also intended to be parallels.

I'll admit I still think the scene where they see every representative at the in universe equivalent of the UN to invade their country was powerful but maybe it's just a case of fascists accidentally making a good point they didn't intend to

wait until we get "is jujutsu kaisen fascist" discourse in a few years (spoilers: eyup, that's a fascism)

The diegetic essentialism post is fuckin sick.

I want your next trick sir, I'm burnin' for rhat FMA: Brotherhood post!

I just recently watched a video on this subject. The video itself wasn't very illuminating about the subject, but a pinned comment was:

Pinned by The Morbid Zoo @ssoftiss 2 years ago Thank you for your video, I agree with a lot of your points. What I think did get lost in translation might be some of the references to Japanese history and common current mindsets in Japan. You mention how it is not easy to identify whether the Eldians are supposed to represent Germans or Jews. Actually I think they are supposed to represent the Japanese .. and that is not a good thing.

A summary of 'sakoku' in Japanese history: Medieval Japan (think Samurai-Era) felt threatened by trade from Europe (Portuguese, Dutch..) who also tried to bring Christianity to Japan. The feudal government at some point closed of the Japanese borders completely and only allowed very limited contact to the outside world. I hope the parallels to Eldians on Paradis Island are obvious enough. Interestingly, many Japanese feel that this step was not a free choice but a last resort to protect Japanese interests. As we all know, the Industrial revolution brought on a rapid technological advance in the western world. Japan was closed off for about 200 years, until the US decided that they were going to force Japan into opening their borders - with their advanced weapons. Just like Paradis is confronted with being wiped out by their soon to be technologically advanced enemies.

Japan during WWII and ethnic uniqueness: In Japan during WWII there was a strong propaganda to create the belief that there is an inherent Japanese-ness which is still prevalent today, not only with far-right activists. If you study any Japanese art you often come across the mindset, that only Japanese might ever be able to fully understand that certain art - simply because they are Japanese, and outsiders may never reach that level. In AOT the Eldians are genetically different from the rest of the world.

Contemporary Japanese views on WWII: The Japanese school system does not include a lot of WWII lessons. So for most regular Japanese citizens, their knowledge about WWII and especially the war crimes is not very broad. This strenghtens opinions like 'my generations has had nothing to do with this war, so there is no reason for apologies or reparations nowadays' or 'It's all in the past and has nothing to do with today'. Even though there are still ongoing conflicts (e.g. South Korea and sexual slavery, euphemically called the 'comfort women issue'). Such beliefs foster a victim mentality. And in the case of AOT, I fear this was translated into showing the Eldians as being discriminated against - comparing them to how the Jews were discriminated. Which would be quite a sickening comparison.

To sum it up, Isayama did portray the Eldians as being on an island nation that is technologically not as advanced as the rest and is thus confronted with an outside threat of being eliminated. This is so close to actual Japanese history that it is not far-fetched to think that Isayama is protraying Eldians as Japanese. Isayama also portrays Eldians as the victims of discrimination, going so far as to bring in themes of how the Jews were treated during WWII.

I think the ending actually made it clear that Isayama - even though he might not be a full on right-wing nationalist - is leaning towards some of the arguments that are right-wing. The ending shows that Armin sympathizes with Eren's decision - because he did it 'for the greater good'. Being a fascist does not only mean being cruel just for the sake of being cruel - it also means to justify cruel actions by it being for a greater good. And that I think is exactly what the ending of Attack on Titan is doing.

I too have been defending AOT since the beginning. But rewatching the series now, I feel like I interpreted many things too liberal, because that was what I wanted to see. Take that scene, where so many refugees are sent back outside the walls because the government was afraid of a food shortage. Reviewing that scene I think there is already an undertone of it being for 'the greater good', of it being a necessary evil and thus - justifying such a horrenduous act.

Same goes with the scene where Erwin decides to order his soldiers to give their lives, just for Levi to have a chance to attack Zeke. Rewatching this scene, I think it actually was portrayed again as a necessary evil. And that would be fascist. Just like how in real Japan during WWII air pilots were ordered to fly their planes right into the enemy, the infamous Kamikaze.

I'm sorry this got so long, no one I know watches the show and I needed an outlet for all of my thoughts after reading the last chapter of the manga.

I think if you consider these points, the ending should not have come as such a big surprise. I really should have seen it coming unfortunately...

One of the characters in the final season tells the Jaegerists that if they kill off all non-Eldians, they'll just make another outgroup to target. A true statement on fascism, but it felt out of place considering the rest of the series, as well as the author.

I await the Fullmetal alchemist post. Both series rubbed me the wrong way for reasons I can't quite put my finger on. Yes, part of it is the fascism, but I think it went beyond that.

I stopped watching AoT during the first season because it's a story of a bunch of valiant heroes grimly marching to their deaths in a war of annihilation against a teeming swarm of sub-humans who exist for no other purpose than to crush the light of civilization in an orgy of mindless violence.

I was an anime only viewer, throughout S1 there is no hint of their purpose, if anything the fact we discover normal people can become giants is a major plot point. First Eren then Annie at the end.

You mention "light of civilization" as if it was completely normal for humanity to simply exist within closed walls? How come that did not make you question the world at all? From the beginning AoT is setup with big mysteries. Nobody should care but you can go back to the r/anime threads of the day and see all the crazy theories people had.

A major reason for AoT's success was the world building, the hype and anticipation for what would come next. The series leaned into this with ad breaks for anime contained world building information to clue you in on some of those mysteries.

In an attempt to dismiss S1 you're also completely dumbing down the actual story just to make your point. "Ah yes well AoT S1 was realy just people getting eaten by freaky looking giant people" is accurate, but not also not realy accurate at all.

Which is to say, the straightest possible portrayal of the fascist world view.

I had a completely different reading, even before the end of the first season.

The Titans were a kind of environmental threat, but they were held back by the walls of the city. Humanity's chronic impulse to expand beyond the borders brought the wrath of the Titans into the city. And their chronic need to expand was driven by the aristocratic government, which exploited and abused and cannibalized it's own people by way of the state police force.

Titans were only a problem because the people within the city could not coexist peacefully. And as these people grew strong enough to face the Titans, what they discovered was only more war and more betrayal and more destruction.

The promise of an exploitable frontier was an illusion, because they would never be satisfied no matter how much they consumed.

Not unlike the Titans themselves.

While initially criticized as having strong fascist leanings in ideology and aesthetic, it has become clear during the final arc of the series that Attack on Titan is not a celebration of fascism but a whole-hearted criticism of it. This is mostly due to the existence of Marley, which provides an excellent foil to Paradis in that while Paradis is fascist out of a need for survival, Marley is fascist of it's own willingness. Even when arguing that Marley could be justified in keeping the Eldian population oppressed out of fear of their Titan Shifter abilities, it is shown that many Eldians actually agree with the Marleyans that the Nine Titan Powers are dangerous and should be kept in containment. This, combined with the years of socio-political oppression and xenophobic hatred towards the Eldians is actually re-igniting the race war that apparently almost destroyed the world, and many Eldians simply want to be equal to their fellow Marleyan citizens. It is also made clear many times in the narrative that the fascist tactics of both nations are only working because of their respective situations- Paradis needs to have a strong military force otherwise it will be overrun by the Titan threat, and it is shown at the end of the Uprising arc that the average populace would much prefer a monarchy or democracy rather than a fascist autocracy. Marley on the other hand is said to use the Warriors as a weapon to oppress other nations despite being oppressed more than any other by the Titan threat, repeating the mistakes of their past in a vain attempt to keep a fascist stranglehold on their nation and the surrounding ones. This, combined with how critical of warfare Attack on Titan is, shows that Isayama intends to criticize fascist ideology by showing what a permanent modern total war state would actually look like- political unrest, xenophobic segregation, and utter devastation.

I dug this out of the depths of TvTropes and I think it's a very good example of my point; a superficial read of the story by folks without much experience in critique and analysis says that the story is anti-fascist because it shows that fascism sucks. A more experienced critic asks why the author created a story where fascism is the correct and only choice.

Someone here once commented that the "true meaning" of AoT is difficult to parse out once you know the author's political leanings and that's kind of where I left that discourse at in my head. It's contradictory and messy as fuck because Isayama is a contradictory and messy person with incoherent-at-best politics.

age of tempires

Can someone do some free intellectual labor and give a one paragraph summary of diegetic essentialism? I can't parse the Internet language

make a post about My Hero Academia, I think the fascist vibes in that show are even more obvious and insane

Idk everybody seems to be against genocide, the sympathetic characters at least. Don't feel like that's presented as a viable or moral thing. Also Marleys cruelty is shown to be unambiguously wrong? I got the impression that no matter what the eldians did later you can't justify the ghettos and camps that shit just isn't cool. Also maybe don't make nukes. If anything the Jaegerist faction kind looks like Israel to me but maybe I'm just a dumbass diabetic essential.

I'm just here for the big freaky giants

I thought it was okay... when I started watching it in American high-school, which is historically a good place to learn what fascism is.

aot is fell offist

I watched the first season and it was boring as fuck

You're wrong and Attack on Titan is good actually