this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2023
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Men's Liberation

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This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.

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submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The fact that being stoic, emotionless or even cold is seen as a trait of masculinity is incredibly frustrating. I feel men should be encouraged to be passionate and expressive with their emotions. Anger shouldn't be the only one we encourage as a society. Have you ever seen a man glow up about his lego collection, or cry at a beautiful scene in a movie they love? More of that please.

Also, men are just as deserving of support networks as anyone else. Though we all experience life differently, we are all human in the end.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The fact that people took Stoicism, a philosophy that's basically cognitive behavioral therapy for emotional awareness, and twisted it to mean "stiff upper lip" or "repress everything lest you seem weak" is depressing as hell.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's one of the reasons I've taken a liking to Diogenes' Cynicism, seeing past the "social norms" and dumb social organization ideas humans come up with.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I also prefer the Cynics. Diogenes is metal as fuck, but my favourite part of Cynicism is that in my opinion, it contains the only true love story in Greek philosophy, Crates and Hipparchia who influenced Zeno, the founder of Stoicism. I'm a sucker for a good love story.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

That, and at the same time it's manly to be angry.

So you're supposed to be emotionless, unless the emotion pushes towards violence.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

This is one reason that Star Trek and Spock and data resonate with me

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a trans woman who grew up being taught boys don’t cry, it’s taken me the better part of 6 years to learn how to connect with my emotions healthily. I’m so sorry that society treats y’all like this. 💜

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I basically had suppressed my emotions my whole life. Since puberty I could count on one hand with fingers to spare the number of times I legit cried before transition and it was usually something like death of a pet or family member.

Some of thst was from running on the wrong hormones, but plenty of cis men are able feel emotional on T. A lot was being scared of showing I had emotion.

I've faired better as I'm not 2 years into transition and already feel like a different person.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's gotten better

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

This is so true. I think for a lot of us this advice (or often command) was most frequently heard in these exact words during adolescence. That said this sentiment can at times feel very present.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In my experience it's gotten better amongst men. Men telling each other to "man up" has largely died, and they are much better at supporting each other. A lot have gotten much better at recognizing when to ask for help too.

However, I think there are a lot of men in relationships under pressure to always be the rock, the protector and provider. They're not allowed to have a problem or a weakness. I mean it's a great way to flush out awful candidate partners. Show a little vulnerability and see how disinterested they get, but it gets tiresome.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I mean it’s a great way to flush out awful candidate partners

I'd say the opposite. It's an obvious red flag that someone doesn't open up about anything.

Show a little vulnerability and see how disinterested they get

Not my experience, but something not too different.

In every relationship, someone has to be the safe harbor for the other to withstand the occasional emotional crisis. This role can and should be taken in turns so that each one gets each other's back. But when your insecurity/vulnerability matches with the other person, it takes a freaking HUGE amount of emotional intelligence and energy to be the person that tanks the crisis this one time and open up about this later, when the other person is ready to take turns.

What I observe in practice is that people (man and women) only learn how to deal with this situation in two extreme ways: 1) spiral into the storm along the partner - which is a fuckup because the other person is not ready for this; 2) suck it up forever and ever - which builds up resentment long-term.

There is a middle path. It takes time to acquire it, it takes even more time to teach it to a partner, but it's one of the main ingredients of constructive conflict resolution.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I think it is getting better. I have a "Boys Get Sad Too" hoodie (recommend them wholeheartedly) and so far I have gotten only positive comments, even from people where you might not have expected it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Why does society do this? Mysterious as the dark side of the moon if you ask me...

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Females aren't in any better of a situation. Mental health support funding is non existent and fucking me over right now :(

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

When discussing men's experiences the most important thing is switching the conversation to women's experiences.

High fives all around!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think you're being a little disingenuous. The two conversations are not only both important, but they're both closely related to each other. It's impossible to talk about the mental well being of half the population without the other half coming up, since a lot of the problems and their solutions are the same.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It is very possible to focus on half the population being told to 'man up' and the gender specific meaning that phrase has since it does not apply to the other half. Just like we can focus on women being told to smile more without needing to drag men's vaguely related experiences into it.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm saying it's not a gender specific issue, but I guess you'd rather play a victim. If you want experience from a men's perspective, I have zero issue with emotional support when I'm talking to girls I can trust.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I think that you are both wrong and right. Societal treatment of mental health issues is indeed quite poor regardless of gender. However, it is important to realize that there ARE differences that relate directly to one's presenting gender.

Just as women are not taken seriously by health professionals, men are frequently treated as less-than by western culture at-large, if we show anything but chauvinistic bravado. This lack of care has had a profound impact on both young and old men who have any mental illness, leading to isolation, and becoming vulnerable to radicalization by those actively preying on them and using them as tools of violence or suicide.

It's a real, gender-specific problem that is well-encapsulated in the proverb "A child not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth."