ey good to see!! as some of ya'll probably know i'd been more informally megathread posting about how patriarchy and conventional masculinity hurt us men and men-adjacents, good to have a dedicated space to discuss (among many, many other things) how it emotionally warps us and how we can show up in our lives as more caring and sweet people. Also could be a good avenue for venting about things like the ways in which modern dating norms hurt mascs (which while not as bad as femmes, are distinctly different and soul crushing in their own ways) without clogging up other feeds. Idk just my two cents, not at all comprehensive!
this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2024
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menby
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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.
Detoxing masculinity since 1990!
You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.
Guidelines:
- Questions over blame
- Humility over pride
- Wisdom over dogma
- Actions over image
Rules (expansions on the guidelines):
- Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
- Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
- If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
- If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
- This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
- A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
- Examples:
- "This is reactionary. Here's why."
- "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
- "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
- You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
- Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
- If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
- If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
- If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
- No singular masculine ideal.
- This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
- Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
- Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
- This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
- No lifestyle content.
- Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
- Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
- At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
- If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.
Resources:
*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks
founded 4 years ago
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Yeah, I think it's important to acknowledge that toxic masculinity was not a term that emerged from women but rather it came from men as a way to describe the corrosive effects that masculinity demands of them
I feel, a community like this is necessary for the project and movement of dismantling the paternal hierarchy we all are subject too. Feminism viewed through the lens of masculinity is a form of introspection, and without a space to discuss that introspection, both personal and collective, I imagine it difficult to build the kind of consciousness required for dismantling that hierarchy. A space like this helps further expose the systemic nature of patriarchy, the way in which it impacts all of us, it's demands of us tailored to our "role" in its design. To build a clear image of the scope and pervasiveness of patriarchy, we need to be able to see it through both Masculine and Feminine lenses, which is why trans and non-binary folk are some of the most critical members of this struggle.
I do think, however, "Mens" communities are some of the hardest ones to maintain. Their history shows us how easily these communities can devolve into male supremacist and male separatist movements. A lack of theory, ideological focus, and external practice leaves it vulnerable to sophistry and eventually chauvinism. While the feminist movement primarily deals with the external force of patriarchy imposed on the feminine population, the masculine struggle against patriarchy is, again, one of internal conflict. Masculine communities seeking to expose male struggles under patriarchy will inevitably have to confront the maintainers of those struggles within their membership. Ultimately, this internal contradiction, if maintained with conviction, can weaken this schism.
Maybe I'm being over analytical here. However, I do feel the lion's share of dismantling the patriarchy rests on the shoulders of masculine people, by rejecting patriarchies masculine norms we deny it the maintainers it needs to thrive and survive. Feminism brought to us the mirror, we mustn't look away from our refection, we need to confront it.
Is it? It still says locked to me so this is my test post please
I saw that, it _was _ open. Probably a needs more moderators thing or something. Above my pay grade.
Hey, while we're at it, can you consider posting a link to this thread here? It's really insightful and a good addition to the recent discourse.
Uhh, alright, so my brain is broken, apparently. What do I do?
let’s talk about that. Let us find how we are broken and find a fix. Where to start?
Actually, I should take this more seriously. So, I have an extremely deeply-rooted fear, and tbh also kind of resentment, over the experience of being persistently socially ostracized & isolated for all of my childhood, and much of my adulthood. This is itself basically a function of me being autistic, and having been placed in special education from a very young age. I've always understood myself to be distinct from, and in a sense, less capable than everybody else around me.
Today, this kind of manifests in a way as an obsession over trying to find romantic, and sexual successes (of which I have of course had none). This is because of a number of factors, but probably one of the biggest ones is age. I'm in my early/mid-thirties now, and it's difficult to do anything except hang around discord chat groups (which I also don't really do, because I'm terminally asocial), because pretty much anyone in my age-range IRL is going to be involved with their own families.
I have nieces, and a sister that I hang out with a lot, and I do like them; and apparently I am their favorite uncle, but also I don't really like being relegated to having basically the same social role as the robot from Big Hero Six.
It's all very frustrating.
I heavily relate to this. Shitty childhood from constantly moving, being different from everyone around me and being bullied to the point I was pulled out of multiple schools, and the subsequent lack of being socialized properly. Probably not autistic, but definitely borderline.
It really does feel (sometimes) that I’ve missed the last boat, but something that helps me and might help you is not losing sight of that people do find love later in life. We can fix things and find somebody. It’s just going to take a lot of work. What that entails exactly is going to require somebody else who’s actually figured it out. We can get there though.
Congrats on being the favorite uncle! You’re doing something right for sure. I have not seen big hero six, so I hope that saying your family loving you isn’t diminishing the point you were getting at. I apologize if so.
If you have any ideas on turning this comm into a positive space please share them!
that guy got banned over some gross shit he said in the announcement.
i have some of empathy for his despair but our happiness isn't, our lives aren't, worth the subjugation of billions.