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I just sent this to my lib friends who are going through the “what country can I get citizenship in before 2025?” excercise. Time is a circle.
this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
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the_dunk_tank
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European lefty here with some questions for the anti-both crowd.
With the FPTP voting system, aren't you limited to a binary choice between Trump and Biden? I agree that Biden has been shamefully complicit in the Palestinian genocide (among broken campaign promises and rightful health concerns), though I would imagine that "finish the job" Trump would be a more destructive choice. Would it not be marginally better to have Biden in office?
I don't hold Biden in the view of someone who is a champion of environmentalism or global peace, but an anti-NATO, anti-climate science, fraudster surely would be more likely to implement harmful changes that are difficult to reverse versus a generic neoliberal?
Of course, this is through the perspective of your current voting system; ideally you would have third-party options that you could realistically elect that are not fronted by genocide supporters. In a case where you had the option for ranked choice or approval voting, who would your ideal party or candidate be?
(Not a troll/criticism post - genuinely curious about the spectrum of American politics coming into the election!)
I agree that Biden has been shamefully complicit in the Palestinian genocide
Biden is the orchestrator of the Palestinian genocide. It was he, not Trump who called Israel the "unsinkable aircraft carrier in the middle east" Biden is much more hardened zionist than Trump. So i reject any notion that Trump would be "worse" as liberal fearmongering and deflection.
an anti-NATO,
NATO has been slowly destroying your European continent and making the EU a vassal state of the US. In just a short decade the notion of social democratic EU values was publically thrown out the window in favour of russophobia and austerity. Trump doesn't actually mean to back out of NATO but just to complain that NATO isn't robbing your little union quick enough. Enjoy the new Ukranian neonazi terrorists who will inevitably reach the conclusion that they were "stabbed in the back" once they are compelled to surrender by Russia.
anti-climate science, fraudster
Biden admin also don't believe in climate change. To them it is a wedge issue on a ballot ticket, not something to worry about. This is because the US is a capitalist system, not because the wrong walking corpse is in government.
a generic neoliberal?
Biden is not generic, he was the VP under war criminal Obama and has been in the political sphere for over 60 years. Hes the defacto ruler of the democratic party who relies on a small network of family and yes man. Trump is the outsider to Washington but managed to win because the dems boosted his campaign in the pied piper strategy of hillary. Biden is a hardened killer, sexist, racist thief. Trump is the normal one here.
ideally you would have third-party options that you could realistically elect that are not fronted by genocide supporters
Ideally we would adopt the same socialist model as China which is actually a democracy where people have a lot of say in how their lives are governed. The problem is not just the mechanics of electoralism but the capitalist system that was sustained through centuries of imperialism.
Yeah, for practical purposes it’s just the two but at this point I’m getting tired of party leadership’s baffling insistence on staying the course against all good sense.
They’ve been up against Trump for eight to ten years now, and they haven’t even managed to adopt or maintain a coherent strategy. 2016 was an unpleasant surprise, yes, but they should have wised up over the next two elections. Instead what we’re getting is warmed over ‘90s politics in the face of a threat that’s been on the proverbial radar for some time now. They’re the fucking embodiment of institutional inertia. Couldn’t change to save their lives.
I would imagine that “finish the job” Trump would be a more destructive choice. Would it not be marginally better to have Biden in office?
The problem with that you see is that the underlying assumption here that Biden "is holding back/not going all out" with the genocide is simply not true. Biden is going all out, he is one of the most rabid Zionist I've ever seen, he's doing everything that the USA can afford to do to support the genocide given the current geopolitical situation of the USA so unless Trump has the power to pull matter out of alternative timelines or something he literally can't do worst than Biden because America as a whole literally don't have the material capability to do worst.
Like some comrades have said multiple times, the only way Trump could do any worst is if he nuked gaza, which he won't do because the pentagon know that doing that would only accelerate the collapse of Israel.
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Anti-voters: as long as I did my best by doing absolutely nothing at all :)
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