this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2024
14 points (81.8% liked)

Electric Vehicles

3043 readers
200 users here now

A community for the sharing of links, news, and discussion related to Electric Vehicles.

Rules

  1. No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
  2. Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here.
  3. No self-promotion
  4. No irrelevant content. All posts must be relevant and related to plug-in electric vehicles — BEVs or PHEVs.
  5. No trolling
  6. Policy, not politics. Submissions and comments about effective policymaking are allowed and encouraged in the community, however conversations and submissions about parties, politicians, and those devolving into general tribalism will be removed.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
14
Why does the US government subsidize the building of EV chargers? (driveelectric.gov)
submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
15 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

At one point I thought that if the Government was giving money for EV chargers, they would be either at-cost or free to use.

One of the first built was at a Flying J truck stop in Ohio.

I looked on plug share and found one in Hubbard, OH and it's 67c per kwh (https://www.plugshare.com/location/582660). The average cost of electricity in that area is less than 15c per kwh. At that kind of price, gas could be a cheaper option.

Why does the government subsidize in a way where already wealthy companies get public money to build chargers, and make a ton more money off the rest of us?

(This is not a political statement at all. I just don't understand why public money goes to make certain private folks more wealthy. I figure I must be missing something).

Thanks for your thoughts!

top 15 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

To get them built. Electric cars are only viable if people can use them on the same infastructure, in roughly the same way as gasoline cars. A core part of that is a expansive and reliable charging network that spans the nation.

It doesnt need to be "gas stations" anymore, but they need to be as convenient, at least in their own way.

It's common, and arguably one of the most useful parts of goverment, that highly positive but fiscally negative projects will be "seeded" for a number of years with goverment money. This happened with electrication, telecom, internet access, etc. Goverment subsidies the intial infrastructure for profit to occur, and then profit motives take over and the government can end its investment. In this way, the goverment can shift the nation in positive directions, improving its citizens lives. This fucks up at times (see hundreds of billions in broadband investments and the glacial or non existent improvements), but is largely a sound idea.

Thats why Bidens IRA pushed so much money into various green tech, including charging infastructure. If the chargers are there, it solves a core EV adoption problem, which spurs green car tech forward.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Downtime or disrepair should have been penalized on subsidized stations to force some reinvestment of those profits I think. Otherwise this whole thing turns into the broadband debacle.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Any disincentive may act against the core goal, so you have to weigh their value.

No one wants broken garbage installed, but if they do get installed and can be fixed, youre still farther along the "get infastructure deployed" timeline.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Electric cars are only viable if people can use them on the same infastructure, in roughly the same way as gasoline cars.

Eh, I think there is should be a difference in behaviour between ICE refueling and EV charging.

The only people who should be charging their vehicles "roughly the same way as gasoline cars" are those who can't charge where they park. If you own a driveway or a garage, you should install a charger there, charge overnight while you sleep, and leave with a "full tank" every morning.

It doesnt need to be "gas stations" anymore, but they need to be as convenient, at least in their own way.

Definitely this. We don't need as many charging stations as we did gas stations, and "home" should be the most convenient place to charge.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I agree with all of this in theory. Though still, why not require certain profit margins, or something? To me its mostly makes already wealthy companies building infrastructure: even wealthier.

I'm saying all of this as an EV driver too. If I use these chargers, it would be more expensive than buying gas and a similar vehicle. I think to actually get people to move more towards EVs, they need to be cheaper in terms of cost to purchase and refuel.

Also PS: more 350kwh fast chargers pls.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Your last paragraph is probably a good reason why. Its a pot sweetener, just enough to get people to do it and maybe some stipulations to make it more beneficial to the economy at large.

If the government can spend 100 dollars and convince you to invest the other 900, then its a 9x times more effective spend of that money.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

The same way that government doesn't cap the price of gas. That's for the market to decide, and EV charging rates are still being figured out. Most lose money.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I agree with all of this in theory. Though still, why not require certain profit margins, or something? To me its mostly makes already wealthy companies building infrastructure: even wealthier.

Because private companies won't build them under those terms. A private company's goal is profit. They can make more money doing other things with their money.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Then the government should build and operate them as infrastructure. Sort of like roads.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Then the government should build and operate them as infrastructure. Sort of like roads.

Many local governments do install EV chargers. The ones we're talking about are over and above those to incentivize private companies to build out larger EV charging networks.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

To catch up with other countries, as far as I can tell.

The US is way behind in a lot of infrastructure development like mass transit and power grids, so falling behind in EVs is pretty undesirable at this point.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Just because a charger is subsidized, doesn't mean it's subsidized 100% (but to be honest, I'm not sure the actual amount)

The charger you see costs a lot of money. It may be supplied by another large, expensive transformer (I've seen 150kW transformer boxes outside of fast food restaurants, and you'd need several if you have multiple chargers - oh, and they could be much bigger than 150kW). Once you have it installed, they need maintenance and repairs. Oh, and the energy companies are going to charge a lot more for a line capable of handling the equivalent of multiple houses going full blast on 200A service at once... Both installation and supplying so much power, especially at peak times.

That said, I have seen level 2 charging at very reasonable rates, some of which seems to have some kind of government or energy company involvement. Basically a few cents per kWh more than I pay at home.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

How much more is a few cents here? Where I am in CA, every paid level 2 is at least twice as much per kwh as home.

Home is about 15c while outside L2 can be 30c-55c per kwh.

I figure these full time chargers get a cheap wholesale rate too. Seems like a rip off.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The ones I was thinking of are $.15/kWh. I pay $.12 at home about an hour away.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

For that price difference: nice.