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My Bf said this when i said china is more free than western countries: (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 3 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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u/nottomat - originally from r/GenZhou
“What about in Hong Kong where they made it so that the leaders are no longer publicly elected? What about Tiannenmen Square were hundreds of people were killed for protesting the Dengist regime? What about how China’s internet is blocked by a firewall meaning you cannot search for various things the government doesn’t want you to search for? What about how journalists punish foreign journalists by removing their press credentials when they say something critical of the government’s policies? What about when in 2019 the All China Journalists Association updated its code of ethics saying that they have to take an exam proving that they are guided by Xi Jinping thought”

How would you counter these statements?

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 years ago (1 children)

u/yesthepeople - originally from r/GenZhou
Tiananmen Square is a farce. They didn’t even protest “the Dengist regime” or whatever that is. They (the many students and young adults) protested the increase in farmer wealth due to recent privatization of that industry. Just do the darn readings guys.

Chinese internet restricts the inflow of (most) Western internet because it is inherently pervasive. Companies like Google, Facebook etc. get caught nearly every month selling or stealing users’ information. Tesla the most recent example of this. This is why those companies aren’t allowed in.

“Journalists.” Adrian Zenz is no journalist for example, but an arm of Western imperialism. (We could also mention his gross anti-semitism and blatant racism). In theory, with the CPC supposedly quashing all and any dissent, they wouldn’t allow “news” agencies like Radio Free Asia and the Epoch Times into their country, but that’s not the case unfortunately. Should we mention what happened to Julian Assange?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 years ago (1 children)

u/jerkirkirk - originally from r/GenZhou
Those are genuine questions, please don't feel attacked.

-if Tiananmen Square Massacre has different motivations, why is that forgotten? West has a looong history of "mistakes" and bad people being killed. If you actually think that the protestors were on the wrong side of the history, why anyway shouldn't that happening be remembered? And do you agree with how they acted with civilians, whatever was the reason?

-https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/8/27/concerns-for-media-as-foreign-journalist-denied-visa-in-hong-kong https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/06/us/politics/china-us-journalists-visas-expulsions.html Even if those journalist where ALL "wester propaganda affiliated", shouldn't a free country let them in anyway? However you think about those journalists, do you think that a free country should deny visas to journalists because of their past articles?

-Isn't restricting internet actually something against freedom? Like what you said is also done by many Chinese apps, but they are not blocked in the west. May I ask you why this is different? How is the west LESS free without a firewall separating the internet from China's one?

As you may understand, I don't agree with your view, I value freedom (the western way) above everything, but I'm definitely a socialist and I'm actually interested in your opinion.

Bonus question: personally I don't trust any government more than any other. I always wonder why do you trust the Chinese government more than any other? How do you know that they are not also manipulating you as USA does? I am European. Absolutely not a fan of USA.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago

u/yesthepeople - originally from r/GenZhou

if Tiananmen Square Massacre has different motivations, why is that forgotten? West has a looong history of "mistakes" and bad people being killed. If you actually think that the protestors were on the wrong side of the history, why anyway shouldn't that happening be remembered?

Because that’s often how history works. Media in the West, always have, and will forever spin stories to demonize countries that are not their friend. For example, the 1996 Russian elections were rigged by the United States, but now they accuse Russia of interfering in American elections. Another example is that the USSR was dissolved illegally, but the West will tell people “Soviets just didn’t want communism anymore.”

And do you agree with how they acted with civilians, whatever was the reason?

I don’t agree with how they acted because there were much simpler ways to make their point heard, as opposed to burning unarmed soldiers alive.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/8/27/concerns-for-media-as-foreign-journalist-denied-visa-in-hong-kong https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/06/us/politics/china-us-journalists-visas-expulsions.html Even if those journalist where ALL "wester propaganda affiliated", shouldn't a free country let them in anyway? However you think about those journalists, do you think that a free country should deny visas to journalists because of their past articles?

They were not denied Visas for posts articles, but because the US was expelling Chinese journalists and reporters first. It even mentions this in the NYT article (albeit fairly hidden). “The journalist said he was told by Chinese officials that if the Trump administration decided to expel Chinese journalists, Beijing would take reciprocal action.”

Isn't restricting internet actually something against freedom? Like what you said is also done by many Chinese apps, but they are not blocked in the west. May I ask you why this is different? How is the west LESS free without a firewall separating the internet from China's one?

It’s not a restriction of internet. The firewall blocks the influx of certain companies. Not just Western media and apps as a whole. Google, Facebook, Tesla, and others, would not comply with China’s request (or demand) to remove the tracking features from their programs. Hence the reason they’re not allowed.

Bonus question: personally I don't trust any government more than any other. I always wonder why do you trust the Chinese government more than any other? How do you know that they are not also manipulating you as USA does? I am European. Absolutely not a fan of USA.

I can trust them more than most governments because they have taken legitimate steps to change policies, laws, rules, etc. to meet the demands of their people. There has been a clear increase the material conditions of most of the Chinese citizens especially over the past 20 years. I trust them more, but it doesn’t mean I support everything they do obviously.

Another point is that the government is not manipulated and coerced by the potential growth of capital like some other governments very often are. For example, COVID. How is the response to covid in countries not manipulated by capital different to those that are. We see more strict lockdowns (even at the expense of economic growth) which has saved thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives. Vietnam fit this description as well.