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Did you all notice that week or so of utter shock from federated Lemmy liberals when they saw takes to the left of themselves? (hexbear.net)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I don't just mean outrage or regular rage, I mean shock that someone was to the left of "legal weed and free college but only for those that operate a successful business for 3 years in a disadvantaged community" top-cop takes.

I think federating took them by surprise, looking back. For about a week, those smug liberals were at a loss to even fathom what Hexbears were saying, and could only chant bullshit about how we're Russian/Chinese bots.

Sure they still do that but they've slightly adapted to Hexbear presence.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (18 children)

Liberal here, sick to death or how condescending the democrats have become. I had a blast watching them froth at the mouths. It was beautiful.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Regarding competing 'echo chambers', we've been inoculated to liberalism because we get exposed to it on a nonstop near-daily basis in our work/social/ whatever lives and come here to gripe about that specicifically, meanwhile these libs have literally never been exposed to opinions to their left because they're used to living in exclusively fedposting curated spaces.

also I'm not a bot I'm a vocaloid, gosh commiku

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I had to make a new main account on a different instance so I could maintain access to HexBear communities. I am so thrilled to finally be interacting with a community of actual leftists! Drag me further to the left daddies✊

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Our existence invalidates their entire worldview. Most online libs sense of self is that they are the good, smart people, and the only ones who could ever be opposed to them are the bad, dumb republicans (who for some reason are not irredeemable and we need a strong republican party for some reason shrug-outta-hecks

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"I'm as left as they come, but I trust the CIA and support every US foreign policy position" fedposting

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

the media are bad and duplicitous and lie all the time to make money for their capitalist owners. except about Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, China, Stalin and the DPRK, I still believe all those lies because I'm a good kid and so is America

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

the media are bad and duplicitous and lie all the time to make money for their capitalist owners. except about Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia, China, Stalin and the DPRK, I still believe all those lies because I'm a good kid and so is America

They are first and foremost, nationalists. It's unsurprising that they accept and go along with everything when they are told "this is good for america". As nationalists they simply bat for their team.

We have to make them stop being nationalists first in order to get that to stop happening. Then the rest opens up.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is a good ovservation. It seems to me that historically the rise of liberalism is paralel to the rise of the nation state. This may be a historical accident or may be because merchant capital and financial capital beneft from a strong state and viceversa. One would expect that as capital becomes international the libs would become less nationalistic. But there is still a large block that would semengly go against their own material interests starting stuff with china for example.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nationalism is a competing ideological framework to class consciousness. Get people to identify with their “nation” instead of with their class and you can get them to fight and die in your wars for you instead of turning around and pointing the guns at you, the capitalist. Nationalism essentially won out in Europe over class consciousness when it came to WW1 and even the social democrats and socialists of most of those countries embraced it and supported their countries in that war EXCEPT for in Russia where the people embraced class consciousness and communists came to power.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yes of course. But there are many ways for the elites to repress the other clases, and this includes atacking class conciousnes. They can send people to die for god, gold and the local lord. And this has been the norm through history. The nation state is 500 years old or so. And most of that time it was limited to a small periferal area of the world.

At an ideological level, we know the main actors of history are classes. While facists and some libs think its the state.

My question is wether the nationalism in lib ideology is an accident of history. That the nation state arose do to geografical conditions that were only tangentially related to the rise of capitalism.

The alternative is that bourgeoise capitalism and the modern nation state in particular are linked in a more fundamental way.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Honestly I am not that left. I just want an internationalist world order in which the means of productions are under shared democratic rational control of the working class to enable survival on the world, sustainable eco systems and the realm of freedom which enables us to work little and enjoy being humans for the sake of being human. That isn't that much.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

That might be a legit tactic. I might try it

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah I'm authoritarian; I love dictatorships.

spoiler

OF THE PROLETARIAT

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

what's funny are the ones who think we're right-wing because they've never heard anyone criticize liberals from the left before

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

"I'm good because I'm left of conservatives, and nobody's better than me, so obviously if somebody is to the left of me they're lying"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Wait, we're not conservatives? Then why have we been celebrating our big wet boy?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A lot of them encountered the very thing they've been conditioned to feel disgust towards, and for a lot of them maybe for the very first time in their lives in a conversational capacity. These are people who are inundated on a near-daily basis with propaganda designed to twist the socialist narrative into one of death and destruction that leads to the inevitable collapse of all civilizations unfortunate enough to let it take root.

I don't think that the average liberal is totally apathetic towards everyone but themselves (I think a lot of us have probably identified as such before, be it as a child or long into adulthood,) but their ideas on human rights, social justice, and broader politics are incredibly underdeveloped. When you don't have a considerable wealth of knowledge or experience to draw on, you're a reactionary subject to the pull of your own gut feelings and the preconceived notions instilled in you by your peers.

What I'm getting at is that I think it's important to realize that a lot of the libs pissing their pants at the sight of evil tankies have absolutely no idea what a tankie is or does, and everything they do know is buried under 10 layers of disinformation. This doesn't absolve them of their crimes of grand dumbassery, but I think it's worth considering that a lot of these people would probably agree with much of what we had to say were we to peel back the layers of their programming. Alas, that isn't often realistic and frankly isn't solely* our responsibility.

*edit

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'll have to admit I was also knocked down by seeing liberal takes that are so outside of my frame of reference I didn't know anyone thought that way.

For example, there was this one user who had decided to die on the hill of getting rid of welfare because they felt people on it were just lazy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

For example, there was this one user who had decided to die on the hill of getting rid of welfare because they felt people on it were just lazy.

What the fuck is left to be "progressive" about to that liberal, then?

RECRUIT - MORE - LGBTQIA+ - DRONE - OPERATORS? obama-drone

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

¯\(•_•)/¯

I got the impression that they were English, in which case there's a trend amongst liberals to be huge fans of austerity. Partly because that's what Blair used to fund bailing out the banks during the financial crash, partly because there's been a concerted push since then to propagandise everyone on benefits as lazy so that people are less bothered by further austerity.

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