Reminds me of when Honda scooters were all the rage in the 80s. And before that, Vespas. Everything old is new again.
this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2024
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micromobility - Ebikes, scooters, longboards: Whatever floats your goat, this is micromobility
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Ebikes, bicycles, scooters, skateboards, longboards, eboards, motorcycles, skates, unicycles: Whatever floats your goat, this is all things micromobility!
"Transportation using lightweight vehicles such as bicycles or scooters, especially electric ones that may be borrowed as part of a self-service rental program in which people rent vehicles for short-term use within a town or city.
micromobility is seen as a potential solution to moving people more efficiently around cities"
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i stopped commuting to work in my car and switched to a motocompacto + public transit. Probably one of the best decisions ive made this year. while it was a little up front investment, i have since paid it off with no longer having to pay for downtown parking. im also a one car home and i would prefer my wife have some easy access to a vehicle should an emergency happen with me or my kiddo.
love riding the moto every morning to the metro line, packing it up and out of the way of other commuters. anecdotally, it really does seem like more scooters and assisted bikes are on the road in my area. though that could just be due to the season.
the change would not be ideal for many, but it fit my needs perfectly.
https://electrek.co/2022/11/15/inmotion-v5-electric-unicycle-review/
Get the helmet and padding, it's no joke. But from what I've heard, if you have the climate for it and are willing to take responsibility for your own safety on a whole new level, they are the future.
It's interesting, but I prefer my two wheels since, if I'm going somewhere, I'm probably bringing something there and/or back. Also, those wouldn't be legal here (Japan) for a variety of reasons.
why those over a one wheel?
i hate to say it, but I'd be embarrassed to be seen in public on one of these. they just look... dweeby? i think it's the posture you have to take on it. it's so awkward looking. the wider sideways stance of the one wheel skateboard is so much more natural looking. and they're better on harder terrain.
the company itself sucks from what i understand, so tha's a fair argument, but i have a friend that makes them open source/pirated with third party parts. why would i choose one of these over one of those?
IDK about e-unis but I avoided One Wheels because I heard they can catch on the ground and send you flying.
interesting, i know many people that like them and none of them have ever had that issue as far as I'm aware.
I've tried them once or twice, but I've always been curious why there's seemingly so little overlap in the two communities. like both camps seem to almost not acknowledge the other.
I'm slightly more in the one wheel camp, but I'm not sold on either of them. hanging with one wheel people started to get me really annoyed by them carrying the one wheel in with them EVERYWHERE they're not that small in the context of an elevator when 4 people have them. and they always bump them into things and it causes a lot of damage. I've got marks on my walls because of them. obviously, is easier to deal with than a car in theory, but there's already so much infrastructure to help you deal with your car.
that said, the one wheel crew beat the rest of us to every event in the city every time. they are genuinely convenient for getting around, and they can easily and confidently go off road. that's huge to me. you don't need a decent road or bike path for them.
it sounds like perhaps the key differences are speed (euc is faster it seems), off road capability, and how you stand on the thing. the stance is actually very important to me. i try not to, but damnit i care if i look good. you don't look cool on an euc. ever. on wheels on the other hand just look like cyber punk skateboards.
the speed isn't a huge concern. those one wheels are already pretty damn fast. i can't imagine if would often be safe to go faster than they can.
all that said, I'm not sold on either, and haven't done much research into electric unicycles. please, sell me if it's something you're passionate about. why should i prefer an euc? also, i do want to try understand why there's such a strong separation in these groups if i can.
damnit, i should have said all that to the other guy..
I gotta say, I don't think they look bad. I think chooch looks awesome when he rides, check out the video I linked.
Practically speaking I don't usually take my fast wheels. Usually I take my mten5 around with just a helmet and some small kneepads and gloves.
It's stupidly powerful for how tiny it is. Easy to carry by the handle. Easy to trolley. And gets me 20 miles of range.
oh that is handsome. but I'm more interested in what a person looks like on it. it's more about the awkward sort of stiff lean that your have to do on them. i just can't see that and not think it looks a bit goofy.
New riders do the "zombie" stance but idk I think it looks good once they learn to relax their arms and bend their legs
here's it today 
And here's a clip of me riding my other one
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTFD5DFJm/
I don't really care if anyone thinks I look goofy, I look great to my eyes. It feels like flying
I've always been more into skateboards/longboards when it comes to more compact stuff but @[email protected] could probably school you on electric unicycles - they have a few of them IIRC
They certainly can. EUCs can too, but it's harder to do because they mostly have way more torque to stay balanced.
Imo, speed wobbles are the biggest danger on both. Speed wobbles are my enemy
My understanding from the lawsuit is that OneWheel's issue was a software bug, and my understanding of how they handled the issues is that it wasn't very well done.
I don't think it was a bug. It's just that people overpower the wheels and then crash.
Futuremotion added "haptic buzz" to help warn people when they're near overpowering the wheel.
I've met lots of people who just don't understand that the wheel keeps you balanced by driving faster than you're leaning. If you overlean it you crash.
Louis Rossman, the revered right-to-repair crusader, had a similar take. Leaning and overleaning is inherent to how the device works and if you bust your head because you pushed past the point of failure that's not 100% on Future Motion. I also rented a one wheel through a gear sharing app and had a similar impression: its clear when you're reaching max lean.
What is on Future Motion and other EV manufacturers, in my opinion, is how all this bullshit tech that makes cars more difficult to repair at home or at the third party shop is being added to micro mobility devices. These vehicles should be easy to service, like a muscle bike or an unpowered skateboard. Isn't one of the reasons cars suck that we spend way too much time/money maintaining them. I'd like that million dollars back please.
If people are blowing things up, perhaps we should teach more classes on electricity in high school. Or we could establish a trade license similar to a plumber or electrician, but certified to work on all small electronics. Obviously self-repair would still be legal, but to do it commercially in a storefront, you could guarantee that those people understand the difference between volts and amps and could define an ohm. Suddenly, 50% less houses burn down due to EV fires. (I would hope)
Ugh I typed a lot and Lemmy (or Sync) glitched and lost it.
Anyway, I completely agree.
Futuremotion makes a great product but they're an anti-right-to-repair shitty patent troll company.
Also Floatwheel is awesome and entirely right-to-repair. And they give the middle finger to all patents and are happily operating with crypto. I paid them $2000 for their version of a Onewheel and I'll do it again when the sequel releases in a week.
edit: it released today
Huh, I'm not gonna buy one because I have 2-3 more bikes/ ebikes and an electric unicycle in line in front of it, but that's really cool. I don't see schematics, but I didn't look very hard. I did look at the parts section and that's cool. Looks like they might have gotten their start making kits for other manufacturers vehicles.
Most of what I know about the recalls that were done was from a Louis Rossmann video on it, and my impression so many months later was that it was a specific design issue either software or hardware that was only an issue with OneWheels.
I don't know which specific video I saw, and am assuming this one contains his understanding of events better than I can express it myself: https://youtu.be/Q_Mk-5XkSmY
Yeah, he nails it. I listened to the whole thing.
Basically exactly what I said, except for "ghosting" which is a problem where the board will ride without a user on it. Ghosting boards can be a hazard, but not to the rider
I'm probably misremembering then. I'll rewatch to get back up to speed.
I ride onewheels and EUCs and everything else. Onewheels are fun. A pintx can take you around town for a decent price.
My main issue with my onewheels has been how annoying they are to carry. My EUCs have trolley handles and can be pushed around in shops.
And if you want to go faster than 18mph you have to look to EUCs. For the price of a onewheel GT-S you can get this https://youtu.be/UsQtRVW3hs4?si=ZujSsjm0d7HFTEFw
Or for the price of a pint-s you can get a T4-pro which will cruise at 35mph, have tons of torque, and easily go over 30 miles.
Also EUCs are safer. I can get into why that is if you want.
i would love if you'd be willing to tell me more about safety.
im definitely turned off by how you look when you stand on it, but i could be convinced to look past that with enough reason.
I'm also curious if they would work as well as a one wheel for filmmaking. I'm a videographer, i have peers that use one wheels very effectively with gimbals to get really nice smooth tracking shots.
the note about carrying it around is useful. like i said, having 4 dudes carrying a one wheel enter a room can cause a problem. there is often not that much space to actually put something like that down and out of the way.
is there a good way to lock these up to like a bike lock or something?
I mean if chooch doesn't look like a superhero in that clip, and if wrongway doesn't look awesome in this one: https://youtube.com/shorts/ZB6jR4c5kug?si=o4weo4x73Kh6_P3c then EUCs just aren't for you and that's ok
As far as safety, the main thing is that they're about 10x harder to overpower than a onewheel. You can't "nosedive" on modern EUC like a Lynx like you can on a onewheel. That's the main safety concern on self balancing wheels.
In my extensive experience with crashing PEVs, EUCs are my favorite to crash on because I'm already in the ideal crash position. I just slide it out on my knee pads and wrist guards. I've yet to suffer any injury. Onewheels have a sideways stance which makes for broken collarbones.
Newer EUCs also have redundant safety mechanisms. The Sherman L can operate even if the hall sensor fails.
They've also got suspension which makes surprise pot holes a non issue.
I love onewheels but they're definitely less safe
It's a different type of vehicle. I don't really know why, but the EUC style of wheels lets you go basically as fast as safety concerns will allow. The good ones can go up to 40-50 mph mechanically. You're never going to do that unless you have a death wish, but the point is that if you don't need to get on the interstate or carry large things with you, it's a good distance to being a full replacement for a car, with a lot of advantages over a car.
It's not just one company that makes them. The Veteran models are supposed to be good. I know there are some providers that make ones that are awful and unsafe. It's a little bit of a wild west, but there's also a whole community of people who 3d print parts for them, make modifications, that kind of thing. It's a very dweeby community in general, so maybe that is a deal-breaker. But the reason I say they are the future is that they are fast enough to be largely a replacement for a car, and smaller and handier than a bike or scooter.
I have many friends that use one wheel skateboards. I've tried them once or twice, but I've always been curious why there's seemingly so little overlap between the euc and one wheel communities. both camps seem to almost not acknowledge the other.
I'm slightly more in the one wheel camp, but I'm not sold on either of them. hanging with one wheel people started to get me really annoyed by them carrying the one wheel in with them EVERYWHERE they're not that small in the context of an elevator when 4 people have them. and they always bump them into things and it causes a lot of damage. I've got marks on my walls because of them. obviously, is easier to deal with than a car in theory, but there's already so much infrastructure to help you deal with your car.
that said, the one wheel crew beat the rest of us to every event in the city every time. they are genuinely convenient for getting around, and they can easily and confidently go off road. that's huge to me. you don't need a decent road or bike path for them.
it sounds like perhaps the key differences are speed (euc is faster it seems), off road capability, and how you stand on the thing. the stance is actually very important to me. i try not to, but damnit i care if i look good. you don't look cool on an euc. ever. one wheels on the other hand just look like cyber punk skateboards.
the speed isn't a huge concern. those one wheels are already pretty damn fast. i can't imagine it would often be safe to go faster than they can.
all that said, I'm not sold on either, and haven't done much research into electric unicycles. please, sell me if it's something you're passionate about. why should i prefer an euc? also, i do want to try understand why there's such a strong separation in these groups if i can.
I am not an enthusiast. I just know some people who are.
I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. EUCs are faster and more powerful, to the point that you'll need a lot of safety gear or else you might get really badly hurt. People get passionate about them and carry them everywhere and get carried away with tinkering with them, and it becomes part of their personality. But they are useful to the point of becoming a part of your transportation method. You have to carry it with you, which is less convenient than nothing but more convenient than having to find a place to put a whole car or bicycle.
The two are similar in the sense of being one-wheel vehicles you stand on, but their niches are different enough that it makes sense to me that the groups are pretty disjoint. I don't know of any "group" for one-wheels analogous to the one for EUCs.
interesting, yeah having to lug it around inside is a big turnoff for me. is there a good way to lock them up and leave them somewhere? that's sort of an open question.
there are definitely large communities for one wheel enthusiasts. i think they're often less about tinkering and more about meeting up and riding together. from what I've seen they are largely organized through message groups and discord.
from what I've seen, my friend doing the open source one wheel isn't alone in his efforts, but the group around it isn't nearly as big as the cousin euc guys. i think he's like 90% to "completion", though I'm sure he'll never stop tinkering.
another big appeal for me is their use as filmmaking tools. I'm a videographer, these go great with a gimbal. i wonder if an euc would be similarly useful.
Those aren't as practical as bikes or scooters. You have to stand the whole time and your legs are the shock absorbers. Bikes and scooters can have baskets, there's a reason much of Asia uses scooters—they're incredibly practical.
They make a version with two parallel wheels that is supposed to me more stable and easier to ride. I'm pretty curious about it.
I have it. It's ok for learning. I would recommend a v8s though for something that you won't get immediately bored with.
$650 if you use coupon code HAPPYINMOTION
I find that 15mph is a good sweet spot, and the v8s can easily do that for 20 miles.
The e20 tops out at 12.5mph and is hard to turn with.
But why go from a bike to this?
Because it's 90F and 100% humidity? Walking to work I get sweaty so I want an electric bike not an effortful bike. I hate riding a bike but got a chance to try the e-bikes at a city event. That is like a dream of a bike, you pedal, it moves. No pushing, and no uncomfortable seat, it's comfortable and a joy to ride.
Bike or walk? I'd much rather walk. Electric bike, though? Electric bike is fun.
I love biking, specifically unpowered bikes because they are light and nimble. Heat makes sense though. I was thinking more people who already have a bike or even an e-bike. Scooters need licenses and then you're on the road, which maybe is a good thing if the bike infrastructure sucks.
Do you really think the average American would pedal to work? Most of them are already upset they won't have a giant metal box around them at all times now.
Lots of us do every day, just saying. Not the average though (yet), but maybe one day...
If it were feasible for me I would, but the only way to get to my work is 15 miles of highway or 20 miles of super busy city roads that intersect with freeways
That's kind of what I'm asking - I already bike why switch? The thing I want but don't have is cargo space for big items and privacy.
The use case for people who won't bike makes sense. Lots of older people, and fucking like 50% of adults are 'obese' in a lot of countries.
Fucking cagers…
Motorcycles are a red herring to the problems of car dependency.
I agree.
I'm not going to lie, that thing is ugly. But the concept is sound. And besides that thing looking like something that Elon would think was the coolest thing ever, I do think I like that big ass Light on the front. Driving in the darkest nightmare as it is, especially if you live outside of a well-wit urban or even suburban area.
Ebikes, especially e cargo bikes, are the absolute bomb.
I can carry my 6 year old on the back while towing 60 lbs of groceries in a trailer and keep a steady 15mph even on hills without breaking a sweat. For my family, e cargo bikes are what will finally make the dream of car replacement a reality.
These other weird scooters seem cool too, maybe if you don't have kids and don't often carry cargo then something more sleek and portable is better.
It's probably gonna be awhile before I actually get one, but if anybody seeing this has thoughts about brands and features, I'd read the shit out of it.
We have a Lectric XP 3.0 that is just... Okay. The features are great, especially the large cargo space, the fact that it folds so you can store it in a small shed, and the odometer/display is good. As far as actual bicycle build quality it's not the best, it's pretty rattly and we've only had it a year but it's already developed an annoying brake alignment issue that I'll need to find time to fix soon. That said, you can't beat the price (<$1,000 if you get it on sale, and they have pretty much constant sales) and it does have the ability to carry a passenger.
I'd say the Lectric is a good bike to get if you are comfortable making your own bike repairs and want something cheap. We got the cargo package and the comfort seat free with our Lectric and we use them both and like them. It's a good little bike and it gets the job done, even if it's not super refined.
For our main cargo bike we have a Flyer folding cargo that's fantastic except that the paint chips easily. But other than that one issue I'm 100% sold on this bike. It folds, it tows, it carries either a kid or a large amount of cargo, and the battery range is really good for the price. The battery assist is really peppy, which I love, and it's got a thumb throttle rather than a twist throttle which I personally think works better on an ebike where you're also keeping your hand on the hand brakes all the time and don't want to take your hand off to grab a twist throttle. It has a lot of other "extra" type features that are nice like a brake light, beefy kickstand, a carry handle on the battery, and a chain guard. Overall the design of the Flyer bike is really nice and it's solidly built. No rattling or brake alignment issues like the Lectric.
I drive my electric moped every day that it's not raining or below 40°F
Is Elon making scooters now? Because these look they were designed by Elon. Though I can't imagine they're made that poorly.
"We were inspired by vehicles like the Delorean and the Cybertruck,” Eddie Cohen, the president of Infinite Machine, said.