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House Votes to Oust Kevin McCarthy as Speaker: Live Updates - The New York Times (www.nytimes.com)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

I'm finding this mess interesting: the MAGAs vote and debate like a third party, which kinda gives us a House with no majority party which is something we usually don't get to see in America. And we're getting the deadlocks that come from a chamber that isn't willing to form a coalition - or at least not a reliable one.

I just hope the next speaker candidate doesn't try for the same Republican-MAGA coalition. Although I'm prepared to be disappointed. Do you think there's any chance a Republican would offer to sideline the MAGAs to get support from Democrats?

Under this analysis the Democrats have a plurality. How does that tend to work out in governments with more than two parties?

[–] [email protected] 48 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Honestly, any Republican that tries to work with the Democrats at this point is going to get eaten alive. Even if it's a "moderate" one. They have completely gone off the deep end.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago

Exactly, the only way to govern in a multi party system is bipartisan. Most Republicans cannot put anything above the party line anymore.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well, the far right faction of Republicans did already side with Dems to oust the speaker.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

Bipartisanship is alive and well!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Which given the composition of the Senate and that whole executive branch thing this means they'll never get anything done.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (3 children)

@hallettj @chloyster Until we stop using politics as a tool to punish each other, get used to more chaos and pain.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 10 months ago (3 children)

This is objectively false. One party deals entirely in culture warfare with no idea how to govern. The other at least tries to interface with real world problems.

All this "we" shit smacks entirely too much of cis het white middle class privelage

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago (1 children)

All this “we” shit smacks entirely too much of cis het white middle class privelage

Nah, it's just the usual "both sides are bad" false equivalence bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Both sides are bad, but they are not equivalent, and we indeed shouldn't flatten the landscape.

In the interest of being constructive, what do you propose is the best way to voice this opinion off-handedly?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

"Both sides are terrible, but at least one doesn't wanna kill me."

Or similar. Just damn the Dems with faint praise.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

It smacks of a belief that to pull through this, the majority of us need to figure out how to get along.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago (5 children)

yes yes both sides of course, both sides

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yes yes, mustn't criticize the lesser evil, mustn't criticize.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

@Zorque @chloyster @hallettj @downpunxx But is it? Why must we vote for evil in degrees every time? Why can't we say "let's look into these perceptions without having to agree with them wholesale?" Why are we killing and dying for ideas?
We're more than just pawns on this socio/economic/political chessboard. But who am I to demand that things be any different. What am I even contributing?

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The Republican party can stop denying women the right to control their bodies, stop denying science, stop censoring history, and stop othering anyone but Christian Cis Het White people any time they feel like it.

But they won't, because that's their entire political identity. I ought to know; I was one of them for 20 some odd years.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

I just hope the next speaker candidate doesn’t try for the same Republican-MAGA coalition.

Any speaker who agrees to the absurd demand that 1 person can motion for removing the gavel is a fool and won't be speaker for long. We all knew that when McCarthy agreed to it that he was on borrowed time. Hell he lasted longer than I thought.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm not gonna lie, I didn't expect the vote to succeed. This is surprising, shocking, and even a bit sad. Not for McCarthy, but more for the country. That this is where we've gotten to.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 10 months ago (2 children)

McCarthy needed Dem votes to maintain a hold on the speakership, but the concessions he would have needed to make in order to get them would have meant making himself incredibly vulnerable to a career-ending primary challenge. The political incentives don't line up.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

He dug that grave when he lied to the Democrats.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

After his shitshow of a speakership does he have any realistic chance of reelection? He looks pathetic and weak and will probably be defeated by a conspiracy blogger.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

He's already decided that he's out of the speakership entirely, meaning that getting the speakership will likely turn into another John Boehner-style Cold War where the most right side of the party gets exactly what they want and the more "moderate" side will get flushed again unless the "moderates" turn it into an actual civil war. Best case scenerio is that Dems get 5 votes and just make one of their own the speaker for the rest of the session.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

I meant his chances of reelection to the House, not as speaker of it.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago (11 children)

I'm surprised Dems decided to join in ousting him instead of voting present and letting him stay. But I guess watching GOP flail in another month-long speaker election can only help contrast them.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Democrats didn't vote to vacate because they like to watch chaos. They simply will not support McCarthy unless he offers something in return. Their vote is a bargaining chip and they aren't throwing it away.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 10 months ago

Especially after he backtracked on the compromise with Biden and then loudly announced he would not concede anything to Dems. The guy went to Home Depot and bought the rope himself. Like, it wasn't going to end well for him either way, but it isn't sad. He constructed this situation, he shouldn't be surprised it blew up in his face.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Gaetz even had to speak from the Democrat side lol

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You know guys, you don't have to actually outdo the UK for unhinged politics. I mean, our lot just won't have that and things are bad enough here already.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Don't... the comments by our (UK) minsters yesterday were appalling and very concerning...

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Woke up today still chuckling at these most very just deserts.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

I prefer Dems be honest and say they like chaos, if that's really the motive. ~~I prefer that because they are effectively shutting down the government longer and potentially contributing to another chaos, which is the Ukraine aid.~~

If they want to be trusted, do it without hiding behind an excuse.

Edit: I'm not blaming it on the Dems. I'm just saying they should not hide their motives if that's what they are doing.

Edit 2: I stroke through the sentence that triggered you guys. Hopefully that would make my point clearer.