Star Trek

I thought this episode walked a really fascinating line in its approach to exploring the lived experience and cultural significance of mixed identities. Having the ancient alien species misinterpret Spock's Vulcan DNA as an anomaly/pathology was a risky move from a writing perspective given the potential for reproducing language and ideas associated with eugenics. But doing so allowed what what I thought was a more robust examination of Spock's character and his relationships, by way of separating one half of his identity from the other and seeing what happens (like a smaller scale of Community's excellent "Remedial Chaos Theory," which examined how the study group might be affected by the temporary removal of each group member in turn).

There was plenty to laugh at, of course. Ethan Peck could easily have gone too over-the-top in playing Spock's surge in human emotions, but I think he threaded the needle really well in allowing through just enough Vulcan "muscle memory" (as it were) to tamp down the humania -- and he still managed to be extremely funny. And Anson Mount as always shined with his subtle (and hilarious) comic timing as the host of the engagement ceremony. Watch the way he snaps his fingers when T'Pring's father asks for more Tevmel --and how he continues on in wide-eyed stride on his way back to the group once Spock starts admitting to his "condition." Mount is a performer who knows how to blend into the scenery rather than chew it -- a distinct quality in a Star Trek captain and a consistently funny one to boot.

But what really made this episode work for me was the heart in addition to the humor. I have a friend who remarked earlier this season that she doesn't understand why Star Trek is so obsessed with Spock's human side; she's much more attracted to his Vulcan side and is confused at what she sees as the constant efforts to make him "more human." I can see her frustration, and this episode certainly turns into that skid a bit. But the show isn't fantasizing or daydreaming about a Spock that's fully human -- it's using the idea as a tool to understand his fuller and more complex identity, and to celebrate what makes Spock Spock. And I absolutely shed tears when Spock came clean to T'Pring's parents about his condition, not just out of personal pride but as a way to express affection and appreciation for his human mother. What a wonderful moment.

And I think this episode's true strength was in depicting how everyone in Spock's life understood that being made "more human" didn't make him better or more "fun" or more "relatable." Not once did anyone murmur to anyone else something like, "Are we sure we want to fix him?" (which I could easily see Dr. McCoy saying, for example). Instead, everyone understood fundamentally the unique value of Spock's half-human/half-Vulcan identity, and went to great lengths to bring it back. It might have been a bit corny to funnel that through Nurse Chapel's romantic feelings for him, and having her have to admit those feelings to an ancient alien species -- but it was smart, too. (And seeing her tell the Vulcan Science Academy that she didn't think their fellowship was ready for her made me literally pump my arm, by the way).

Another solid Spock-centric episode in my book. I look forward to reading what everyone else thought!

They're also doing a really good job of playing out the long arc of T'Pring and Spock having genuine affection for each other to the point where we're actually kind of going to be on T'Pring's side when she finally reaches the conclusion of "Man, fuck that guy"

Aha! I just noticed that the lead writer on this episode is Kathryn Lyn, who also wrote the best episode of Lower Decks to date: the incredible “wej Duj”.

No wonder I thought that Ortegas’ line about “Notice how I move my eyebrow but no other muscles in my face,” sounded like something Mariner would say.

I loved the episode. Someone needs to make a Spock kicking the air GIF. I love that Spock has two hotties fighting for his attention. This was close to a hangout Trek. AND they were on a mission too! This episode felt so much like TNG. Again, Pike's hair is amazing. THE BEST PART: When Pike tried to escape the reunion of Spock and his future mother in law the damned door wouldn't open. Pike avoiding family conflict was the best running joke on the show. And LOVED that Pike wasn't the hero. Show is so good.

"This is irregular. A complaint outside the response period." - those aliens are Germans. 😄

Great episode. Just the right amount of whackiness to not make it too ludicrous. And it wasn't just comedy, at its core this episode had a human heart - no pun intended - with Spock connecting to his mother's burden.

One thing that I realized, once again, is that I don't really know what Una's job on the Enterprise really is. She's barely doing anything. You'd expect her to accompany the away team at the end of the episode (or did they steal the shuttle, now that they know how to steal the Enterprise). For an XO she's barely noticeable. This isn't a complaint about this episode, it's a thread that runs throughout the series.

To end on a positive note: can those costume designers finally get an award please? The outfits on this show are always so stunning.

Edit: I just realized that the episode was written by Kathryn Lyn who also wrote one of Lower Decks' funniest episodes, "wej Duj". She seems to become Star Trek's go-to gal for comedy.

Much to my own surprise, I'm a complete sucker for this budding Spock/Chapel romance. I just want these two beautiful people to be happy together, damn it! We all know it's doomed, unfortunately, and I hope that whatever inevitably destroys it doesn't turn out to be too painful for the characters involved. Spock and Chapel are obviously not engaged in a romantic relationship in TOS, most obviously in Amok Time when such a pairing would have rendered the entire story trivial.

Someone mentioned in a previous thread that Spock's Pon Farr (seven years before Amok Time) is closing in. I was skeptical in that thread that they would choose to touch on it then, but the events of this episode do make that seem quite a bit more likely, if (again) increasingly difficult to square with Amok Time.

The moment when Spock saw himself in the mirror gave me a good chuckle. His reaction as a human to seeing he no longer had vulcan ears was hilarious.

I am completely on board with the Chapel/Spock shipping going on. My heart broke for her a little bit when she administered the cure to Spock.

I really enjoyed this episode. The whole cast of SNW are really strong but Jess Bush has been a particular highlight - I'll admit I was cautious when I first heard they'd cast some Australian model as Chapel, but that caution was gone by the end of episode one and she's become easily one of my favourite characters. Ordinarily I don't tend to find that Star Trek romances do much for me but they've now got me invested in Chapel and Spock.

With hindsight my only mild criticism of the episode is the premise that a human Spock would be more emotional than the Spock we know. We constantly hear that Vulcans feel emotions more strongly than humans, but have learnt to embrace logic to control them - i.e. their nature is more emotional than humans but their nurture counterbalances this. So wouldn't a human Spock (with biologically human nature, but the nurture that Spock carries from his life experience being raised as a Vulcan) actually be super rational and logical?

I laughed more times in that one episode than I have during hundreds of previous Trek episodes COMBINED. Trek comedy has never landed with me which makes this the best Trek comedy ever by a large margin. Angsty Spock and the crew's reaction to him were genuinely funny, with a special nod to Pike's "WTF" facial reactions in the background during the ceremony.

Going in spoiler-free and without having read people's opinions in this thread, I'm going to guess this is going to be one hell of a polarizing episode. But one I really enjoyed, so there's that.

I had so much fun watching this episode. Spock yelling at his mom in a beanie like a teenager fucking killed me. This episode was filled with so much potential meme material - I can't wait to rewatch it to collect screenshots.

This episode was so much fun!

I'll admit, reading the premise ahead of time (by accident because Liftoff app doesn't do spoiler tags yet oops) had me worried as I find a lot of attempts at "humour" in modern Trek tend to try way too hard and are just uncomfortable to sit through. But this was genuinely funny! Turns out Ethan Peck has great comedic timing, and Pike's background antics and reactions were fabulous. The dynamic between T'Pring's parents was a bit stereotypical but also extremely relatable.

Also really liked what they did with Nurse Chapel in this episode. Her pain and desperation helped balance the episode and make it something more than just funny hijinks. The feelings of regret and survivor's guilt, the desperate need to fix something that wasn't even your fault, grief over losing (at least partially, in this case) someone you love. So many complex emotions shown on screen at once, all by one character, and entirely believably, was not something I expected from a "haha funny Spock" episode.

After some further thought, I have to make the observation that I think T'pring knew something was wrong with Spock. There are a few things that T'pring does that indicates she knows that whatever Spock is going through, it's more than he lets on. The main indication, to me, is when she held his hand after pouring the tea, which has to be excruciating to Spock. She helps him while he's pouring the water to ensure the tea is properly steeped. She initiates the end of the Ritual of Awakening; interrupting her mother because the timer has expired. She defends the memory Amanda and Spock share. I love T'pring because, regardless of the circumstance, she stands beside Spock and defends him in the best way possible.

Unfortunately, by the time she realizes something is amiss, they are committed to the ritual and they cannot get out of it even if she would want to delay it. I still think that Spock, at the time, chose to not disclose his condition for good reasons. I'm still on the fence that T'pring would've accidentally revealed that during the mind meld with her mother. I'm still onboard that Spock made the correct decision, however I can say that he should of at least disclosed that something was amiss a little later on.

By far the best moment was Pike's face when he noped out of the scene after Spock revealed the deception.

​I absolutely love the Kerkhovians holy shit. They feel like they've fallen out of a slightly different genre of Sci Fi than Star Trek normally goes for, like something from a Revelation Space or a Culture novel.

At first I was thinking, "I thought we had all agreed that we did not approve of hijinx" and I am totally unable to enjoy cringe humor. It doesn't make me laugh, just...cringe.

BUT it turned out that it was in service of advancing two of Spock's most intimate relationships and wow, that packed a punch. It was like, for us 21st century humans, the first time you looked at your parent and saw them as a fully fleshed-out adult with their own struggles, not just "mom" or "dad".

T'Pring was 100% right to feel slighted by Spock not confiding in her, though I don't think it was lack of trust on his part, I think it was more not wanting to have both of them in a situation where they had to deal with...hijinx. But that's what marriage is, committing yourself to another person first, always. And apparently Spock is not ready for that yet.

Ethan peck looked like he had a blast with this episode, screaming into a towel is a mood

I also enjoyed the "subservient" dad who really just wanted to eat good food and play charades but was shot down :'( but then the captain gave him leftovers with a cool snap :)

Also, as a meta comment, I really dislike the scenes where it's clear they are just I don't of the LED wall. It looks so fake and the actors just stand there in an obviously empty room. Season 1 of SNW had at least one episode of this, and season 1 of the mandalorian did too, and they really need to follow the mandalorian example.abkut having actual physical props in addition to the LED wall to prevent it from looking fake as hell

I would not be opposed if episode five of every season of SNW involves Vulcan Hijinks.

I needed the laughs this week and it totally delivered for me.

Star trek always does this to me, they introduce some character or change to a character that I initially would not agree with but they always make me love them. I'm going to miss human Spock now.

When they said they were bringing the Kirk's into strange new worlds I thought it was a terrible idea, now I keep thinking how great a series with the new Kirk would be.

When seven turned up in voyager I knew it was because of sex appeal and the FHM magazine culture of the time so I was against it, now she's my favourite character and I cried when she was made captain.

Whe Pike and Spock turned up in discovery I thought that was a bad idea, now pike is my hero and I never want SNW to end and Ethan Peck is totally smashing it as Spock.

Human Spock? What a shit idea. But, I absolutely loved it.

It's funny how both Pike's and Uhura's first word with a totally unknown species is "Hi!"

You're Starfleet! Come on!

OK... they will have learned this lesson by the 24 century. 😂

Also, why treat the aliens like idiots? Why say: "You made him easier to talk to" instead of "He is now a different species." This seemed to just have served as a plot point to make Chapel admit her feelings openly.

These minor quibbles aside it felt like an average TNG episode. And for me that means it is a successful episode.

Good for Ethan Peck. It's like when Brent Spiner got to play Lore or Doctor Soong and express himself through other characters. Human Spock is basically another character. It would be nice to see him again some day.

fuck you unvulcans your spock

I keep watching this series and saying, see this is what we want. This was a fun episode that hit all it's marks, science and technology, social issues, and an awesome story.

The Kherkovians remind me of my worst customer service experiences. I bet Yellow and Blue aren’t even their real names, just aliases to mask the rep of the day.

I’m also convinced they have to be connected to the Bajoran Prophets somehow. A transport tunnel? An interdimensional liminal space? Come on!

The Vulcan comedy of manners was hilarious, especially the Awareness ritual, which is basically every thing your in-laws hate about you but told to your face with no pretense. Pike trying to get them to play charades was a little too on the nose, I think, right up there with “You’re astronauts on some kind of Star Trek.”

I was half convinced the mind meld would turn out to be a TAS: “Yesteryear” reference. Not gonna lie, felt a bit let down. They’re also really teasing us with this Korby stuff.

I also thought the reason Spock didn’t tell T’Pring was because he thought there was a risk T’Pril might pick it up during the meld.

While I enjoy them, I do hope the zany episodes don’t always revolve around Vulcans. As funny as they are (and teaching Spock how to talk like a Vulcan was gasping for breath funny) I don’t always want them to be the butt of the joke.

The main thing I disliked is that it kinda of removed any chance of us getting a "Spock is split into his human and vulcan halves by a transporter accident and they totally don't get along with each other" episode down the line.

So... what was up with the door in the transporter room slamming shut in Pike's face when he turned to leave Amanda and Spock? lol

I love this show. I actually like every character in it, which is rare for me these days. Cannot wait for more.

I was disappointed they didn't spend more time on the scene at the end where Spock reveals to T'pring's mother that he was actually human while performing their precious ceremony. Really wanted to see him yank that Vulcan rose bush that woman had up her ass!

In a good way, they took a lot of scifi things that have been done in other trek and remixed them into a very good episode. It had shades of Voyager's "Faces", DS9's "You Are Cordially Invited", Data getting his emotion chip in generations. These are things we've seen, but explored in new and pleasing ways.

I feel like these bread crumbs of context to "Amok Time" are going to make a classic episode better, but for a lot of newer fans there could potentially be no pay off if TOS can't hold their attention.

Some fan discourse I've seen on mastodon suggested "oh look there's the AR wall" like its some kind of bad thing, but I don't see this as any different to saying "oh look CGI character" we all know it, you don't need to point it out.

Things I liked: Ethan Peck and Mount have some great comedic chops. Many funny lines throughout, generally enjoyable.

Things I did not like: Never been a fan of altering Spock's backstory with T'pring. Chapel doesn't even know that Spock was engaged in Spock Amok. Please stop the T'pring stuff, also maybe it's time we saw some Spock instead of all this funny stuff.

The entire part where Chapel has to explain her feelings to an alien felt juvenile and stupid.

Overall an ok episode.

Y'all ready to buy that Star Trek beanie at the next Trek convention? Makes for easy cosplay, especially if you have human ears.

A few thoughts on the rewatch:

Chapel having to explain her feelings for Spock to the alien was kind of a teenage show thing. BUT the more I think about it the more I realize that TOS had aliens with simple, sometimes pure, goals. So I think these aliens fit right in with ST.

The "ancient alien" line may not age well. They are usually very careful not to put references to our time due to it not dating well (Musk, Stacey Abrams). I've heard it mentioned on Shuttle Pod show that the actors could not change a word of dialoge to protect the show from sounding of our time. Of course the joke of using that phrase will fade so maybe it's OK.

What was that bit about Pike's girlfriend looking for Dilithium? Was it a joke that went over my head? Could someone explain?

Whyyyy would Vulcan kitchens run cooler than starships? Vulcan is a desert planet and Vulcans as a species are accustomed to high temps -- which is even obliquely referenced in the ep when Amanda says that a Vulcan wouldn't even notice the heat from holding a boiling hot teapot barehanded. I would assume Vulcan kitchens to be higher temperature than even Vulcan living quarters, which should be higher than human-standard room temp. I can't think of any legitimate reasons why a Vulcan kitchen would be cooler than Pike's quarters at all, let alone so much cooler that it makes a manifest difference in fermentation rates.

Let's answer the real questions here.

What should we call this relationship? Chock? Spapel?