I’d put Spawn in this category as well. While not without its issues I think it captures the spirit of the comic fairly well and is still worth a watch even 20-some years later. I still have no idea how Michael Jai White didn’t become a bigger action star…

SPVTW has long been among my favourite movies of all time. And I remember when it released my best friend said it was a bunch of "hipster bullshit"

They’re both products of their times. The squid made sense in a time where comic books weren’t as grounded as they are today.

Also a squid makes more sense when you actually foreshadow a squid. The movie would have had to shoehorn that in through the plot and that would have been a mess.

It was cleaner. Different medium, different capabilities.

Have you watched the HBO show? The squid totally works.

The whole Dr Manhattan plan could've blown up at his face though if he took it personally and killed everyone.

I do kind of like the squid ending because it's supposed to be something completely unexpected and unbelievable that governments would actually believe it's an alien. They could've foreshadowed it a bit better but I like the weirdness of it.

The ending works a lot better, agreed. But most of the beginning and middle bits change the tone/framing/emphasis/etc to give the exact opposite meaning to what was originally intended. Biggest example I can think of is the opening battle between the Comedian and ~~Ozymandias~~ the mysterious assassin; in the graphic novel that fight is framed as a dying, bitter alcoholic well past his prime getting absolutely bodied in an unceremonious and fitting end to a despicable man. In the film, sure he loses in the end but it's a much closer fight and he goes out in a blaze of glory, defiant to the end, quite literally a hero's last stand. Snyder also does his best to make Rorschach look as cool as possible (while still being grungy and uncouth) instead of how he is in the graphic novel: psychotic, extremely antisocial, and borderline fascist. Again, the change to the ending was a good choice, but there were many other choices made that I personally completely disagree with

The ending was equally fine as the book, the main issue I have is that in the book, the only real super powered person was Dr. Manhattan.

A lot of things don't make a ton of sense having all the heroes have super strength and durability.

I was way too young and credulous to understand what starship troopers was doing. Other than feeling a little bad for the alien worm at the end i just watched it like an action movie.

Now that I'm a more experienced adult, it is overt in its commentary to the point it's hard to believe i missed or the first time.

I use this lesson for myself when i find it hard to believe other people cannot see the propaganda that we are immersed in daily, or get a different message from a piece of media.

After all, I missed it too. I watched the same movie at two points in my life and saw two very different things. I think about that alot

Paul Verhoeven is such a mixed bag. You get inspired trash like Robocop and Starship Troopers together with actual trash like Showgirls and Hollow Man.

But I don't agree that the timing would have made much of a difference. If anybody took more notice of the movie, it'd be the chuds who mistake the lampooning of fascism as glorification. I've been quoted Rasczak's class lecture about force and democracy unironically more than once.

A friend of mine screens tender matches by asking potential dates about Starship Troopers or Fight Club. It's hilarious bc the chuds think she's chill af right up till she unmatches.

There’s a book by John Steakley called Armor that reminds me a lot of Starship Troopers and really captures the feel of an embattled military operation.

Fun trivia that Smash Mouth's All Star was originally on the soundtrack for this movie and the music video features clips from Mystery Men, two years before Shrek.

the performances in that film are fantastic.. actors don't get enough credit for the work they do in silly films like this one, because Kinnear is great, Stiller is great, Geoffrey Rush is hilarious, Garofalo is awesome, Macy is obviously great, they're all awesome..

Don't forget about Mystery Team.

https://youtu.be/m1CM1xwpoW0

My wife and I had never heard of the Tulsa Race Massacre at the time. We were debating whether it was in poor taste to write such a disturbing/racist/violent event in fiction. Then we actually looked it up and realized how we had been failed by our grade school educations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre

It's a good show but it feels like it has barely anything to do with Watchmen. The main villain was so weak compared to what the comic was going for, and the main character is a raging asshole while the show acts like we're supposed to be sympathetic to her.

Yeah, literally everyone who liked the HBO series went in skeptical that they would even attempt such a thing. It’s so good though.

Watchman is a franchise with an intense blessing when so many seem cursed. The movie was made by someone who didn't understand the comic at all and it turned out fantastically, despite that. Easily the best Snyder product, and I do generally like his goofy ass.

Then, over a decade later, it has a weird HBO TV show, made by the creator/writer of Lost, someone who did at least understand very well the comics. But someone with a controversial track record, and making a show entirely out of original material. And it SLAPS. I tend to market it as "what if lost was rated R, 1 season long, and perfect". Still got my fingers crossed for another season, but it doesn't need it at all.

There's an incredible irony here too. Watchmen the comic was released after years of superhero comics had played out the tropes to exhaustion. Watchmen was a critique of that comics industry. So to say that it belongs in a post-Endgame world is to acknowledge that the movie adaptation is now working as pre-satire of what superhero movies would become.