Why?

Reason #1: Inciting Incident

As some of you may be aware, the country of Mali is apparently beginning to talk back .ml top level domains. This has already affected other communities and has the potential to affect lemmy.ml (See here for context). This is preemptive act to ensure that what we have build so far is not destroyed.

Reason #2: This community does not align well with lemmy.ml

Lemmy.ml is a FOSS focused instance. At the time of the creation of lemmy.ml/c/ps5, lemmy.world was not even on the map. I established this community very early before the reddit migration and wanted to establish it on what I believed at the time was the "flagship" instance for better discoverability. A lot has changed since then, and I believe this change will be in the best interest of this community moving forward. The Admins on lemmy.world have been wonderful and responsive, and I trust lemmy.world will be a great home for us.

Other people have personal issues with the lemmy.ml instance and its admins, so while this move will help others who dislike lemmy.ml confidently join our community, it is not the primary reason for migrating.

What will happen to lemmy.ml/c/ps5?

Great question. I would love to hear back from other community members on this subject. My initial plans are to pin this thread indefinitely at the top and cease posting news to this community. I will post weekly cross-posts in this community to the discussion threads on lemmy.world/c/ps5, which will have the comments locked, and a comment recommending others subscribe to the new community.

For other users posting here, I will still allow posts, but I will comment in each thread with a reminder to post to the new community. I do not intend to lock these posts at this point in time, however if substantial discussion is happening in these threads I may lock them down.

Please let me know your thoughts below!

-Cosmic

P.S. Special thanks to @[email protected] for transfering me the new community!

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[–] [email protected] 109 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Hmm...

IDK, I think a big thing with federation should be communities being spread out, instead of centralized in one instance. I totally get why you would want to move away from lemmy.ml, both on account of the Mali government and feeling like it doesn't fit, but why not move to, say, Lemmy.zip or Derpzilla.net, since they're tech and gaming focused instances? I get discoverability, but on the other hand, wouldn't being on an instance of people that are more likely to care about a certain topic be better for discoverability too?

IDK, just saying. Hope all goes well with your community!

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This is a very good and fair point. I did consider this and was beginning to actively investigate something like this already, specifically lemmy.zip. I have been pondering a move to something more appropriate for awhile now. Unfortunately the Mali situation is forcing my hand to act more quickly, and I wanted to pick an instance that has a known track record. The World admins have successfully run both lemmy.world as well as their mastodon instances. I do not know much about the gaming-centric instances and their admins enough to jump in blindly at this time. If I had more time to develop those connections with them, I would have done so (and was planning to do so).

I do think that something like a gaming-centric instance is the way forward long-term and supports the Fediverse's values and it will be something I deeply consider when evaluating a potential future migration due to future circumstances or for something like a PS6 community establishment. If there were ever a way to more easily migrate communities, I will also consider this down the line.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If there were ever a way to more easily migrate communities, I will also consider this down the line.

Ah that's a great point actually, and I believe it's in development as we speak. A lot of people have asked for that feature.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

When it comes, I will consider it

[–] Jambalaya 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I second this. Lemmy.zip seems like the logical choice here.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

i personally would be reticent to move anything to lemmy.zip, given the issues with .zip domains. especially on lemmy, with the @'s in the urls

but i don't have a ps5, so i don't have a horse in this race

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah I agree. I'm really shocked zip even became a TLD. It's a phishers dream come true pretty much.

Hello Zeus, I've attached the invoice here, please click to open it. invoice.zip

And for the click conscious,

Recently .zip became a publicly available top-level domain. Please consider contacting ICANN who coordinates all domains on the Internet, or Google which is the sponsor and registry for .zip and voice your opinion on the gTLD. Hopefully with enough pushback they will prioritize our collective good above other factors and shut down the gTLD

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

that's a good point, i hasn't considered writing to icann (not that i have a very high opinion of them these days). i don't suppose there's a template letter anywhere to save me writing one?

also by the way, i love your netscape avatar

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I tried following the link but the process was confusing enough that I gave up lol.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

what link? am i going mad?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah at invoice.zip

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

ah sorry, markdown didn't auto-link it so i completely forgot that it could be a link...

i've just submitted something to icann, i don't think it's worth it with google

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It will take a while to get away from the centralized world view of Reddit. To me, instances are like countries with their own constitution (rules) and police (mods). This means that two communities in different instances may seem the same, but they are not, because they have to follow the rules and culture of their instance.

Just like a PS5 club in Germany will not be the same as the PS5 club in the US because they will be culturally different. I think it will take some time for the Fediverse to think this way.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

I think that pragmatically splitting up the active users like this "isn't worth it" yet, the entire network is still fairly small all things considered. For the largest general topics like general gaming, posting pictures, politics, etc. it may be fine, but anything even slightly more niche than that will have trouble keeping an active userbase if there's multiple communities across multiple instances.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I don't really like the country analogy but I do agree with your overall point. I think, as Lemmy gets bigger, more people will actually look into different instances and join the ones they relate to or want to participate in the most.

As you said, it'll take some time, but I do think it's only a matter of time, if that makes sense haha

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They just unveiled: https://old.lemmy.world

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Yo what! :O

That's awesome!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You can also go to: https://mlmym.org/ to get the same old-reddit-style UI (using any lemmy or kbin host). I have no idea which one is preferable at this point, or if they even both point to the same thing anyway.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

WOOO! Good to know that as well. Thank you!

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Leaving an instance curated by and for tankies is a good call.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Does the end always justifies the means?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Page 14 of Einstein's 260 pages of FBI files:

"Not even Stalin himself is affiliated with so many anarcho-communist international groups to promote this "preliminary condition" of world revolution and ultimate anarchy, as Albert Einstein."

Einstein certainly thought so. Both before and after the revolution, also both during and after ww2.

Einstein's essay - Why Socialism?

[+] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

He has a number of interesting historical takes on socialism and events of the period. This dinner speech for example might take some people that have red scare brainworms rotting their brains by surprise:

I find this part particularly interesting:

In the political field, it was the Russian government, of all the great powers, that labored in the most honest and unequivocal way to promote international security. She pursued this goal in her foreign policy until shortly before the outbreak of war—actually until the other powers brusquely shut her out of the European concert, in the days of the betrayal of Czechoslovakia. Then she was driven to conclude the unhappy pact with Germany; for it was notorious that an attempt was being made to turn the force of the German attack eastwards. Russia, in contrast to the western powers, had supported the legal government of Spain; she offered assistance to Czech׳ oslovakia; and was not guilty of strengthening the arms of the German and Japanese adventurers.

There's a lot to unpack here but Einstein says:

The USSR made all efforts to stop the war happening.
The western powers(UK, France, US, etc) shut the USSR out of European discussions and betrayed Czechoslovakia.
Molotov-Ribbentrop was an unhappy last resort that they were driven to, that the western powers were attempting to drive the nazis into attacking the USSR and that's why they would not help the USSR stop them.
The USSR supported everyone while the other powers (UK, France, US, etc) strengthened the nazis and Japanese.

This is all obviously stuff most well read socialists already know and agree with, but for people that are riddled with propaganda brainworms it often comes as a bit of a worldview shock seeing Einstein say it.

Nelson Mandela is another fun one to go through since most libs don't even know he was a communist.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I got very annoyed when we got TLDs like "IO" for Indian Ocean, and then the tech community adopted it for the generic reference of "input output" sounding very techie. Granted, I grumble about everything that goes into site naming for modern tech sites.

There's some good TLDs, and there was never anything wrong with ".net", ".biz", or even ".game". People should stop using the ones designed for particular countries for being convenient abbreviations, and go to intent focus.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm with you in principle. But realistically, scalper-driven scarcity is a big problem in the big three TLDs, and nearly all the new generic TLDs have at least one of price, governance, or length problems that make them unappealing. Under the circumstances, I can't exactly fault people for choosing regional TLDs.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

It's not just a matter of convenience, with new TLDs, people have less of an innate bias towards them and it makes it easier to establish a certain identity.

I'll be honest, I would never buy something from a .biz TLD. I don't know why, it just feels sketchy and out of date to me.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I had no idea that was what that TLD meant. TIL, thank you!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

just want to point out that a majority of they regular names are already taken, that’s one of the primary reasons why new TLDs are such a blessing

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Maybe look into creating your own instance (or even a gaming focused instance), like [email protected]

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

I considered this, but I do not have the resources to run my own instance. There are some gaming focused instances that are popping up, but for now the most established gaming communities are on lemmy.world. Plus, I dont know much about those instance admins to trust blindly diving in with them. I am very happy with the lemmy.world admins and think they are doing a great job. They also have a successful track record with their mastodon instance, sot I have confidence in them longer term.

I will keep this in mind for a future migration to something like PS6 (or if some other catastrophe comes along lol).

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Isn't any .id at the same risk level of Indonesia taking back their domains like Mali did? Unless the server is actually located in Indonesia of course.

[+] [email protected] -12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Yep, moving from the #2 instance to the #1 instance. Great idea.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As opposed to moving to a decentralized instance?

Every lemmy instance is centralized, it's not a bloody blockchain.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No, as opposed to moving a specialised instance, like how Android moves to lemdro.id. All of the centralisation lemmy.world and lemmy.ml is beginning to have an effect, and you guys are just at the starting line of finding out.

Decentralisation has nothing to do with blockchains. Hell, even BitTorrent was decentralised before the term blockchain even came to be.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So your suggestion is to centralize all gaming communities onto a single lemmy instance? That sounds like a great alternative. Besides, the real decentralization would be having a ps5 community on lemmy.ml, lemmy.world, and lemdro.id. That way if any one instance is shut down there are still two more that users can migrate to.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, again, my suggestion is not to centralise anything.

If anything, I would have preferred if ps5[email protected] had moved to lemm.ee instead of lemmy.world. As it stands, lemmy.world is getting too big for a "federated" Lemmyverse, why should we continue to support federation on Lemmy, if lemmy.world becomes the new Reddit?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It’s good to have options. You can’t make people do what you want them to do. Having options means being able to choose one central instance. People are going to be people collectively and sometimes you gotta follow the desire path.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Are you going to pay for the hosting and do the work to keep the instance up to date?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I understand that this move is not one that is best for the fediverse, but at this time it is what is best for my community. The Mali situation does not provide me enough time to consider better alternatives. I live to fight another day. When a community migration tool comes along, I will consider migrating again. For now, this is my decision and what I think is best.

[+] [email protected] -12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Perhaps you should have taken the time to consider better alternatives before jumping. This looks like a hasty thought, jumping from the #2 to #1 Lemmy server, and it's actions like these that definitely harm the Fediverse. Now the lemmy.world instance has to shoulder on even more burden. Thanks.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I would have, but unfortunately, the Mali situation does not afford me the luxury of time, as they could shut down the ML domain at any time, and they have already done so to another instance. Lemmy.ml being shutdown will kill my community outright. I respect that you disagree and I understand the reasons. I actually agree with you. If a community migration tool comes along, I will look into moving off of lemmy.world to a reliable and trustworthy gaming centric instance.

As for .world not being able to shoulder the burden. If they didn't think they could handle the load, they can close signups and restrict new community generation. Since they haven't, then they are choosing to accept these users and communities with open arms. I actually personally raised this issue with them when they surpassed lemmy.ml in total and active users. They are confident in their abilities to grow and manage. The admins were made aware of my intent to migrate and even helped me coordinate the transfer of ownership of [email protected] to my account for the purpose of doing so. They are very much in the loop on this.

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