of course no mention of upcycling these with linux and getting them into needy hands. with alll the solid state hardware now many of these machines are perfectly functional, and will be for some time. its the batteries that likely need a looking at
this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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No, personal computers can only ever work with Windows. I just love that the common thinking process just accepted that problems, especially IT problems, can only ever be solved by 5 gigacorps.
BTW a lot of these will not even be laptops, I imagine they won't even need much. If Windows was a proper system by the way, they could be still supplied with security updates by third parties.
Also, I've seen Rufus claiming to be able to remove the TPM requirement from the installer. I didn't test it though.
Let's go back to 1995, you're a corporate IT manager or C-class executive , responsible for deploying desktops, laptops, to 10,000+ employees (I worked for or with several companies like this at the time).
You need directory services, email, app deployment. You also need common office apps, like word processing, spreadsheets, etc.
Your end users are finance folks, regulatory compliance teams (i.e. legal), marketing, etc, who've been working with systems that are purpose-built for their roles (mainframe/IBM As series for finance, print layout systems for marketing, etc), with not everyone really using email much.
Suddenly you have an opportunity to migrate everyone to a general purpose system that's pretty easy to understand, and many people already have some familiarity with. You can eliminate sending handbooks to everyone by building your own intranet which people can access with IE. Your HR systems (which are still on mainframes/AS-400) can now be accessed by IE from anywhere in the company, so time entry, vacation, benefits changes, etc, reduce time and paper consumption dramatically.
Theres a million reasons why companies embraced Windows back then. Standardized UI for everything massively improved support capability. Being able to take output from legacy systems and present it better either via IE or custom-built apps made for significant training reduction, and could even reduce password management difficulties, and increase password compliance/security for the legacy systems (I saw one custom app in 1996 that presaged SSO by managing logins to 11 backend systems).
There was nothing in the *Nix world at the time that could compete with the whole package that Windows/Exchange offered, for the user management and end-user ease-of-use. Especially since you could retain your legacy systems and use Windows as both Windows and as a terminal if needed, and provide app flexibility for end users.
Then there's the productivity side, there were already tons of Windows apps available, with many more on the way. And people were familiar with how to use them, because of a standard interface. Also, many people were using Windows at home or school, so we're familiar with it.
Just compare Word to Wordperfect at the time. I'm not sure WP was even a GUI yet (I forget when they added it). So legal folks were fast as hell with WP, but your average user wasn't, and it had a bit of a learning curve. Compare that to the menu-driven, WYSIWYG Word Perfect.
Now look at the SMB space, where money is even tighter. It's much easier to deploy and manage an exchange/windows setup for 50 users than what, setup a Unix system? I could teach someone to do day-to-day Exchange admin stuff in a few hours, because GUI is way easier than command line for people who are new/inexperienced, because it reveals the concepts/paradigms. And Exchange ran on fairly generic hardware. Again, they didn't have to buy something like an AS400.
Unix folks just didn't see what was coming for some reason. I remember Unix admins disparaging Windows as a "toy" in the early/mid 90's. Even today I couldn't imagine selling a Linux setup to most companies, as mature is it's gotten.
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So what I'm hearing is, free Linux servers?
Right? That's what I heard.
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Positive take: Lots of great Linux laptops on their way to eBay.
cheap Linux laptop too!
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High-end corporate laptops from 5-10 years ago make excellent cheap and powerful Linux machines today (given a reconditioned battery, assuming you want to run them without mains, and a new SSD several times larger than the hard drive they came with). See all the sticker-festooned Thinkpads you see at conferences that spent the first few years of their lives handling executive email and PowerPoint presentations, now living their best lives.
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Windows 10 should not require such a short life time. 11 isnt much different other than the security\TPM chip shit. And 11 is fucking terrible UX
I like that it's completely arbitrary and you can force windows 11 to install on unsupported hardware.
Also true.. Windows 10 EOL is just planned obsolensence
In one sense, I'm glad they put this stupid barrier up so that I don't have to keep deleting the forced upgrade as part of regular Windows Updates like I did with Win10, but on the other hand it's bullshit that they're creating so much waste for no other reason than personal profit for their company.
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Where can i get this waste .my linux pengiun will love it🤩.but it saddens me that people relay on windows so much.
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All these machines will continue to run, so if they're not going to upgrade to win 11 and buy a new machine then what does it matter. They'll just use a win 10 machine with no updates forever. Security concerns aside obviously.
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Embrace Linux and open source software
This will be interesting, maybe this will push for huge adoption for linux. This could also mean a lot of old hardware that are still very capable goes to 2nd hand market in turn lowering prices for pc. Or nothing happens and most of the people will be in a compromise OS for years similar to what happen with windows xp debacle. There also another situation where Microsoft does backtrack on its decision and the same status quo would remain for years to come.
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Google should be pushing ChromeOS towards people and businesses with this kind of hardware. It’s a perfect way to capture market share from Microsoft.
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I tried win11 for about 2 hours and installed linux on the third hour and haven't used a windows machine in over a year. Windows costs an obscene price AND they have so much tracking and spyware that it actively impacts gaming performance.
Complete trash OS. I won't be going back and I now actively avoid any game that doesn't function on linux.
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I can't upgrade to W11, I can't afford nor am I ready to upgrade my gaming PC, its likely I'll be moving to Linux or keeping to use W10 w/o support.
Microsoft really did no favors with limiting official W11 support. Its not just TPM.
I migrated to linux when Windows 7 died. So I'm you from years ago, lol.
If you'd like any advice, I would just say check ProtonDB for the games you regularly play (especially if they are MMOs) to make sure they work, cause anything that uses restrictive kernal level anticheats arent going to run.
and if you are looking for a distro, I would personally recommend Nobara. it stays up to date, it has a lot of the gaming stuff built in (Some of which might require compiling from github otherwise), and its been rock solid for me personally. but you should poke around and find whatever tickles your fancy.. and anything you don't get from X, that you can get from Y, can usually be manually installed on Z.
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Use Linux.
Oh, I didn't know that was an option! I'd forgotten about it since the last time I read the comments on a Lemmy post related to Windows.
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OK, half of them were trash, anyway. But the other half can still be a good Linux box. Wipe them, install Linux, and give it to schools so children can learn that there is something better than Windows.
Half? Bet that number is higher. Linux can run on a potato if you find the right distro.
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How many non-tech people actually know about this? And how many of that small percentage are actually going to toss their computer as a result of it?
Because for the average computer user, they will never wonder why there are no more updates. And as long as their computer still browses the internet they don’t care even if you notify them.
Microsoft tried for years to get people off of fucking internet explorer and barely succeeded.
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Incompatibility with what? Things are only just starting to be incompatible with Windows 7. I've still got customers running variants of Windows XP.
And Windows 11 doesn't really contain much that won't work on 10.
I reckon the TPM and secure boot requirements will eventually be dropped. They're the Kinect of Windows 11.
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Great time to buy a cheap used PC for linux
Why cheap, why separate? Just use your current one and slap in another disk. I've been doing it for decades. Many games run surprisingly well in Linux, sometimes even better than windows
These Win10 EoLs are going to flood eBay at dirt cheap prices, and they make great server/project boxes. They're going to be new toys for the hobbyist crowd, not primary machines.
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It's 8 years old. FFS install Linux and have a little server or some shit if you really can't be bothered to upgrade.
Ok so if you built a computer in like 2019 or 2020 it's only 4-5 years old. This was before windows 11 came out. 4-5 years is not that old for a computer, especially if you built a good one.
This is what happened to me, a really high end PC built in 2018 and I couldn't even upgrade because of the TPM stuff! Decided to try out Zorin and have been pleasantly surprised.
9 times out of 10 you can turn TPM on on these machines, and even then, i'm told "Can't upgrade to Windows 11."
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I just helped a friend who is still on Windows 7. I showed him my Linux boxes. Even offered him one for free. "but I can't live without this minesweeper". Seriously. I showed him minesweeper on one of the Linux boxes. "it's not the same one, I have a high score". Thankfully, this isn't a laptop, because he would not be permitted to connect to my wifi. Those that scrap their old devices for Win11 will either be businesses/corporations that have no other choice or slightly more advanced users that understand the benefits of active support. The general populace will likely keep their Win10 (or 7) computers until they have to upgrade the hardware, and they'll likely be super happy that they don't have to deal with the "annoying windows update that restarts [their] computer". To be fair, forced reboots is an annoying feature.
WINE will run minesweeper. He can even bring over his highscores file.
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Given how long it took the general populace to let go of Windows XP, I predict a pretty similar turn of events (or rather lack thereof) with Win10. By and large everyone's grandma and parents and auntie will just keep on using their same old computer as it is, possibly eventually turning into a petri dish for every exploit and piece of malware in the known universe in the process.
The majority of casual home users will throw away their computer and buy a new one only if it stops working or possibly if some new piece of software or more likely some future web site won't work with it. Otherwise, to most non-nerd users it's just an appliance.
Office and corporate deployments are another thing, but OS end-of-life situations are not new to any of those guys.
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I've kept a Windows 10 install on a separate SSD for the programs that stubbornly refuse to run on Linux (games, in my case). However, I won't be upgrading that to Windows 11. I'll just reclaim that SSD for other purposes and use Linux exclusively.
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Big corporations, screwing the environment, one greedy policy after the other
I don't know how to install Windows 11 and I'm totally ok with it. I've been on linux for about 10 years.
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Year of the Linux deskt- haha just kidding. People are going to just go out and buy new stuff. All part of the system, even if it's capitalist hell.
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