this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023
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Fediverse

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A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).

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My Problems with Mastodon

Even with growing pains accommodating an influx of new users, Lemmy has made it clear that a federated social media site can be nearly as good as the original thing. I joined Lemmy, and it exceeded my expectations for a Reddit alternative run by an independent team.

These expectations were originally pretty low when Mastodon, the popular federated Twitter alternative, was the only federated social media I had experience with. After using Lemmy, Mastodon seems to be missing basic features. I initially believed these were just shortcomings of federated social media.

  1. Likes aren't counted by users outside your instance, and replies don't seem to be counted at all (beyond 0, 1, 1+), leading to posts that look like they have way more boosts (retweets) than likes or replies:

    This incentivizes people to just gravitate toward the biggest instance more than people already do. My guess is that self-hosting a mastodon instance would also not be ideal, since the only likes you'll see are your own.

  2. There's really only one effective ways to find popular or 'trending' posts. There's the explore tab which has 'posts', and 'tags' sections.

    The 'posts' section shows some trending posts across your instance and all the instances that it's federated with, this is the one I use it the most.

    The 'tags' section is a lot like the trending tab on Twitter, but it's reserved just for hashtags, which I guess isn't a huge deal, but it feels like a downgrade. However, I do like the trend line it shows next to each tag!

    The 'Local' and 'Federated' tabs are a live feed of post from your home instance and all the other instances, respectively. I feel these are pretty useless and definitely don't warrant their own tabs. Having a local trending tab for seeing popular posts on your instance would be more interesting.

  3. The search bar basically doesn't work, is this just me???

  4. This one is more minor and more specific to a Twitter alternative, but when looking at a user's follows, you'll only see the one's on your home instance but for some reason this rule doesn't apply to followers.

From what I've heard, a lot of these issues are intentional in order to create a healthier social media experience. Things like less focus on likes, reduces a hivemind mentality, addiction, things like that (I couldn't find a source for this, if anyone has one confirming or disproving this please lmk).

Why this is a Problem

Mastodon seems to have two goals: To be an example of how a federated alternative to Twitter can work well, and to be a healthier social media experience. It's not obvious, but I think these goals conflict with each other. A lot of the features that are removed in the pursuit of a healthier social media will be perceived as the shortcomings of federation as a concept.

In my eyes, Mastodon's one main goal should be proving federated social media as a whole to the public, by being a seamless, familiar, full-featured alternative to Twitter. For me, Lemmy has done that for Reddit, upvotes are counted normally, you can see trending posts locally and globally same with communities, and the search function works! All its shortcomings aren't design flaws, and I fully expect them to be fixed down the road as it matures.

As annoying as Jack Dorsey is, I have high hopes for BlueSky.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Yoo, people who say "oh my, mastodon doesn't have likes and algo and that's what makes it perfect", are you nuts? Good suggestion algorithms are the only thing we need in our services be it music, video streaming or social networks. I just came to mastodon, how do you expect me to find people to follow? It would be so much easier to select from somewhat relevant posts than to google who to follow on mastodon because its search engine works like crap. Lemmy is getting good now because of communities migrating from reddit, but huge accounts from twitter don't sway so easily as mastodon is not so good as a twitter alternative

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Watching Mastodon-stans defend the lack of search is like watching a cult-member explain an insane belief.

So far, Lemmy feels like the least cultish corner of the fediverse. That might be due t it's external focus.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)
  1. It actually does appear that Mastodon doesn't know how many replies there are until it loads them for display. Glitch, a Mastodon fork with some UI enhancements has an option to display an estimate of the number of replies. Lemmy obviously displays an exact comment count while using the same protocol. There may be a performance/efficiency motivation for this.
  2. A trending feature should probably have the option to include federated content, as some instances are very small, even single-user.
  3. I find the stance taken by Mastodon's developer and many users... I'll be charitable and say unreasonable. It's about a dozen lines of code to add a proper search and there are two ways to do it (Postgres text search is easy, Elasticsearch may be better for big servers). Some server admins have implemented this.
  4. I'm seeing that for both follows and followers.

There are other ActivityPub Twitter-alikes that may meet your needs better, such as Akkoma. Akkoma has reasonable search, can show remote follows and followers, and seems to keep accurate reply counts. It's not as polished looking though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There may be a performance/efficiency motivation for this.

Lemmy communities work by having a psuedo-user that "boosts" all posts and comments it receives to all it's subscribers, meaning all instances are aware of all comments (as long as at least one user is subscribed, and barring any defederation). I'm not entirely sure on what the "reply fetching algorithm" of Masto is, but it doesn't go out of it's way to fill everything.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

My Mastodon search has never worked either, Lemmy is a much better Reddit alternative than Mastodon is a Twitter alternative

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Hello, have you tried Akkoma or Firefish?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I'm on glitch soc instead of mastodon and I've liked it a lot
it pretty much fixes most of my biggest gripes with mastodon and I hide the counters anyway because the number isn't very important to me

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Try firefish

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Huh I thought people on Mastodon just tended to prefer “retweets” over Likes haha

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I’m using Mammoth to interact with Mastodon and other than the likes, reposting difference that’s made to diminish the echo chamber, it works very much like Twitter. Searching is great and the app works really well and looks great. Oh and the content is of much higher quality on the regular.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have high hopes for BlueSky.

I'm really enjoying BlueSky. The only problem with it right now is just not having all the people I followed from Twitter/X on there especially official accounts for sports teams that I followed for news/content. It's getting there though.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I love mastodon and it’s funny little brother Lemmy. Both are great.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Care to elaborate? Do you agree or disagree with the op on any of their takes?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (10 children)
  1. This is a feature, not a bug. Clout-chasing is what kills corporate/surveillance social media. Get over fantasy Internet points and start providing and consuming actual content.

  2. I'd like to see "trending" removed entirely from Mastodon. I don't give a shit what people at large think is important or cool or funny or whatnot. I care what my social circle thinks is important or cool or funny or whatnot. And for that? I've got my feed. Get over algorithmically spoon-fed statements of what you should care about and, you know, interact. On social media.

  3. The search bar works, just not in the way any sane person would expect it to work. It's badly designed, badly named, and badly implemented.

  4. This is an unfortunate side effect of distributed social media. Federation is already a huge bottleneck for the Fediverse. Adding social graph follows to the list of things being transmitted around willy-nilly is a bandwidth killer. Any social media that is truly distributed (read: not BlueSky) will have the same issue.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

3rd party exists

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Personally, I’m happy with both. Lemmy and Mastodon are far from perfect and both feel sorta beta, though Mastodon is further along.

Search is weak on both platforms, imo, but I expect it will improve eventually.

You mention favorite counts only being your instance, but same is true for community subscribers here.

Also landing on other instances from outside links can be confusing to find the same content in your instance (Mastodon and Lemmy).

Federation does make things more complicated. But it beats centralization.

In the end, it comes down to your personal end use and preferences.

Personally, I like Mastodon for conversations and I like Lemmy for community building - I mod [email protected] - and that works for me. 💕

(Though I’d kill for some consistent performance from Lemmy after trying to comment 3 times)

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