I really feel like everyone is letting their emotions and ideologies run the narrative here. Lemmy.world was already defederated with Hexbear, everyone was. What they are doing is choosing to remain defederated once Hexbear federates. And that is perfectly within their rights. Until we get better moderation tools and the ability block instances at the user level I can completely understand why the admin and mods don't want to deal with potential issues. Maybe once we all have better tools then we can try playing nice together. This is the same reasoning Beehaw took and I think it makes sense in this case as well.
this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2023
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Asklemmy
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Why though? They've done nothing worthy of defederation, they're simply trying to maintain their standard of quality. And they are a HUGE INSTANCE.
Extremists are always going to get pigeonholed by the rest of the network that doesn't want to see that shit filling up their All page and infiltrating their comments.
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You want to defederate from the largest Lemmy instance, the poster child, and the mascot of Lemmy? Good luck. They are Lemmy now.
The way .world has dominated is problematic for federation, honestly.
I agree, but it's too late now. Even Sync defaults to the .world instance, and at this rate, they'll only grow bigger.
That seems like an argument from tradition though. Just because something has default become some way doesn't mean it has to remain so. I think there's bigger principles at play, censorship of minority opinions for starters.
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I think the concept of a mascot or poster child for Lemmy is somewhat antithetical to the concept of federated social media. Kind of a no gods no masters situation.
Is it really federated social media now though? With how much .world has grown, they could disable federation and be their own walled garden.
| instance | active users monthly | |
|
| | lemmy.world | 34436 | | lemmy.ml | 6716 | | lemm.ee | 4265 |
Like, they have nearly 5x more active users than .ml at this point, how ridiculous is that?
I feel like it’s been so active because app developers almost all default to lemmy.world. It’s a bit concerning honestly, I wish things were a bit more spread out because everyone is at the mercy of Lemmy world and as we’ve seen several times it doesn’t look like the admins of the instance are making decisions based on community feedback.
I suspect most people who joined Lemmy ended up on .world because they would have gone here first:
For a while Lemmy.World was one of the first ones you came across; between that, the open signups and the “general purpose” moniker, rapid growth was probably inevitable.
Add the fact that lemmy.ml and others were/still are doing applications for sign up instead of an automated system. I applied twice for a .ml account and never got a single response, not even a denial or "your application is being processed". I have no idea if my application was ever even seen.
On the other hand, I signed up to lemmy.world and kbin.social in minutes and have been using them ever since.
I was tempted to join .ml but the banner at the top of the application form was discouraging. Went to .world and here we are.
Yeah, it felt a lot like "you need to prove you're worthy" more than just proving you're not a bot.
I mean, if I wanted a walled garden I'd just go back to Reddit. Federation is part of lemmy's beauty, but if the imposition of a particular mindset through defederation becomes the norm, why would anyone respond with anything but defederation?
In short: why tolerate intolerance?
This is my take. I choose the instance that fits best for me, and I know what my admin, u/db0, uses as his litmus test for defederation. As long as you find the instance that is handled how you want, you can avoid whatever side of Lemmy you choose. That's not to say badmins don't exist or won't replace the good ones eventually, but that's the nature of decentralization. You have to be prepared to move in those cases. That's why I bounced from .world real quick.
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I disagree with lemmy.world's decision, for three reasons:
- Address problems as they appear - negligence is bad, but so is jumping at the gun.
- Locking users out because they're misbehaving is different than locking them out under the assumption that they'll misbehave.
- Given that lemmy.world is a generic purpose instance, odds are that it would work better by letting users sort themselves out, and only intervene on problems when it is not reasonable to expect users to do so.
I also think that lemmy.world's current size in comparison with other instances is a bit problematic. It's great to see instances growing but it would be better if said growth was spread out.
Just my two cents, mind you. I'm from neither instance.
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I googled this to find the drama and the first link is to their fucking cth community lol
you don't get to be edgelord shitposters and then complain when people don't let you come over to kick their sandcastles down anymore
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Defederation should always be seen as last solution and should not be a preemptive action.
Instances can defederate whenever they want, but skimming the sidebar and announcements, it's weirder to me that lemmy.world is still federated with lemmygrad, which seems to be very similar to hexbear.
Anyone have any insight into the difference between lemmygrad and hexbear?
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I'm out of the loop: What's the deal with Hexbear?
Adding to what others have said, opposing viewpoints are GOOD. Well reasoned opinions should be encouraged. I don't want to end up in another curated echo chamber built by someone else. Add the tools for users to block an instance and for blocks to work better in general. Give us the tools to decide our content. Leave the curation up to the users.
Otherwise you'll just end up with everyone spinning up their own instance and building a million individual echo chambers(tho it wouldn't be bad if there were more instances lol)
Why would you? In fact, everyone should defederate from hexbear, they're basically lemmygrad lite anyways.
I mean, they're opinionated but we've nothing concrete to suggest they'll be invasive or detrimental to other instances. Even lemmygrad generally keeps their stuff to their instance.
Have you even visited hexbear?
I feel like the admins of hexbear are fairly conscious of their user base and have made sure to take all the necessary steps to properly federate with world. What’s concerning to me is that world preemptively defederated without hexbear showing any signs of hostility or malicious intent. Remember how long it took world to defed from exploding-heads? A literal nazi hub?
It all seems like de federation based on political ideology which, I mean, is in worlds own rights to do, but the fact that they’re the largest instance making preemptive decisions based on nothing isn’t boding very well.
That's what's worrying to me. If they federated and started brigading communities, that's one thing, but I don't think they even have the numbers to meaningfully do that to start with. It feels like ideological censorship.
Interesting that the top comment is this:
Not in favour of this. I chose Lemmy.world because I wanted an instance that would federate even with people I might disagree with. If it's illegal and abusive, sure. But to defederate on ideological grounds? I was planning a recurring donation but this makes me consider setting up my own instance. They're welcome to whatever discussions they want to have on their instance. As long as they respect the rules of other instances when they're here, then everybody wins. As for their point about dismantling western propaganda - if they have documented sources then let's have a conversation. It's not like there isn't western propaganda
I don't remember which episode, but the podcast blocked and reported described exactly that that is what's going to happen to the fediverse. Sad.
(found it. The conversation is about mastodon and starts at 43:30)
I'm conflicted with lemmy.world's decision to defederate with them.
In theory I disagree with them because I think open discussion is always better than silencing or deplatforming.
Of course it's a bit different with activists who are not looking for an honest discussion, only to further their ideology.
Also, getting a swarm of tankies will not make the instance a fun place and will probably make me switch to another one who defederated with them.
I don't mind people whom I disagree with, I'll gladly talk with both libertarians and communists, but in my eyes tankies are the same as neonazies.
It would be very funny ngl
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