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So Pope, do you not class defeating a war mongering fascist dictator as protecting human rights, security, and peace? Appeasing dictators doesn't work as we found out with Hitler AND Putin.
On an unrelated note, the Catholic Church including the Pope almost certainly knew about Preists smuggling Nazis to South America. Just some food for thought.
https://www.dw.com/en/the-ratlines-what-did-the-vatican-know-about-nazi-escape-routes/a-52555068
There's no creativity required.
An invasion can be ended at any time by the invader simply withdrawing all troops.
It's difficult to build lasting peace when the aggressor does not want it. Sure the Russians are open to peace in their terms, but imo that is just escalate things again in few years to come.
Don't get me wrong, EU is in big part a peace project. That however shouldn't happen at just any cost. Free, independent and territorially whole Ukraine is important for the future peace, Ukraine, Europe and even good for Russia.
How would it be good for Russia?
Carving up Ukraine's territorial integrity is breeding grounds for further border conflicts. Do you think Ukrainians are going to simply sit and quietly forget about it if Russia steals their territory, or will it remain an open wound that provokes them to retaliate in any way they can for decades to come?
Well I think that ship has largely sailed, unfortunately. At this point I would think Russia is incentivized to hold as much territory as they can. I don’t see it being returned really changing the relationship or border situation too substantially.
You don't think relations between Russia and Ukraine will not mend sooner, in historical terms, if this war ends in a white peace, rather than with Russia keeping Ukrainian territories? Being invaded will remain a traumatic memory for most Ukrainians for the rest of their lives, but forever losing a chunk of their country will contribute to keeping that wound open and will favor nationalist, anti-Russian rhetoric in their politics, which will absolutely remove the possibility of ever initiating a new chapter in their relationship with Russia.
The invasion has been such a catastrophic failure that I don't see how "escalate things again in a few years to come" is even remotely plausible.
I think you seriously underestimate Russia. They have a helluva lot of manpower, natural resources and money. They are also able to import western sanctioned materials via China and Central Asian countries.
Russian society is being organized to resemble a war economy. There are new laws that make drafting more difficult to avoid and with more severe punishments. Also they have just raised the age for conscription. They are playing the long game and preparing for future eg. mobilizing the whole society under one delirious cause. Late 20s, early 30s it is totally possible that Russia has a better military capacity than it currently has. Sure, the life of average Russian will suck way more than it does now, but there's not really an option if you want to keep your job in a tank factory and avoid going to prison. You have no choice but to participate.
Putin has made his mind and the struggle in Ukraine only makes him more determined that He is fighting an existential battle with the west, especially since he believes that democracies and western liberal lifestyle are on a path of inevitable decline.
Sure, if he is stupid enough He might start a conflict with NATO, believing that the alliance will break when under pressure. He might think that He is prepared and the west is weak. And while there's 95% change that he is mistaken, it doesn't matter if he himself believes the crap the yesmen around him and He himself are feeding him. That's the real risk and to me, a defeat in Ukraine makes this scenario less likely to happen.
Russia has been asking for peace through security guarantees for literally 20 years.
Last 20 years russia invaded Georgia and twice Ukraine. Any attempt to find peaceful resolution post 2014 invasion was made impossible by russia. They were amassing troops around Ukraine since early 2019 and likely prepared for this since Minsk II was signed in 2015. That agreement eventually ended up with russia deciding that Minsk II no longer existed in 2022 and invading 2 days later based on made up excuses. These are the "security guarantees" they have been asking for. They never had any intention stopping their invasion, they just needed pause to prepare for another offensive. And they are doing exactly the same now.
So what you're saying is that NATO had decided that Russia's request to negotiate for decades was not going to go anywhere and everything Russia did poves it but everything NATO did has no bearing on the topic?
Russia is an imperialistic state that thinks it should have influence on the politics of its neighbors. But this is wrong. Every country belongs to itself and is allowed to make its own decisions. What do you think gives Russia the right to negotiate about the fate of other countries that are not Russia?
There was nothing to negotiate with Russia. Russia is not part of the decision making process of other sovereign countries. Especially not those that seek for protection from Russia.
Russia’s “requests to negotiate” were also sprinkled with three hostile invasions of its neighbors. It’s asinine to pretend like the will for peaceful negotiation was sincere. When it all started they still tried to pretend like it wasn’t them (no relation to Wagner, little green men, and so on). Nowadays Russia doesn’t even pretend to be anything but a warmonger.
Every country has influence on the politics of every other state. You are projecting your own Euro-centric atrocities onto Russia. Which countries have violently destroyed the most national movements for independence? Which countries have violently dominated and imposed occupation on the most people in the world? Hint: it's not Russia. It's the member states of NATO. Spain, France, England, The Netherlands, Portugal, and their bastard child the USA. If you want to ensure nations can operate independently you should not be supporting the US as it continues it's decades long hot, cold, and proxy war against Russia.
The idea that you think Russia has no stake in what other countries do means you think about national security like a feudal lord. All we need is a big castle and keep to ourselves, right? Unfortunately, that isolationist fantasy does match reality, nor does it matter the understanding of politics and national defense that has guided world politics for over a century. All security is mutual. Everyone in the security world knows this. Russia's demands for national security, like ALL demands for national security, requires mutualism in the security structure. And since the dismantling of the USSR, that mutualism has been missing. The imperialist genocidal US along with the imperialist and genocidal European powers made it very clear for decades that Russia's security doesn't matter, only their security does. This is quite literally the exact same structure as a hot war and invasion of Russia, just earlier in the sequence.
Russia's attempts to negotiate for peace since it's emergence from the USSR have been spurned. At some point, the West must see consequences, they must see that Russia will not appease them. There must be something to negotiate with. You seem to understand this for Ukraine, demanding that Ukraine be sent all the weapons and soldiers needed to completely destroy the Russian military before you think it's legitimate to negotiate, but you think Russia should just do nothing while the genocidal imperialists continue their 600-year project of total global domination up to and including nuking civilians and undermining MAD so that they can do it again?
Face it. You're a hypocrite. You're projecting your white imperialism onto other nations to deflect from the actual threat in the world being your home community. And you are applying both arguments from ignorance and double standards to maintain your dissonance and rationalize your Russophobia and support for the most violent regime the world has ever suffered under.
You’re the reason why people on the internet often mark their sarcasm.
NATO is a defensive alliance and Russia not repositioning troops to defend against new NATO member Finland tells you all you need to know about how threatened Russia really feels about NATO.
defensive alliance
Tell that to Iraq, Afghanistan, and Yugoslavia.
Russia is absolutely threatened by NATO because NATO was created to be a transnational military force directed explicitly at Russia. After the Third Reich failed to defeat the USSR, it's stated goal, the West betrayed their Soviet ally, created NATO and then staffed it with Nazi officers.
Tell that to Iraq
Iraq was invaded by 3 of the at the time 20 or so member states of NATO. Still was an illegal invasion in my opinion but it wasn’t NATO.
Afghanistan
If you harbor terrorists that attack the most powerful nation in the world I don’t know what to tell you. But I’m sure the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was totally cool, right?
Yugoslavia
This is the part where you deny a genocide happened, right?
the West betrayed their Soviet ally
Was that before or after the Soviets teamed up with the Nazis to invade Poland? I can share the photos of them shaking hands if you’d like. But again, I’m sure Stalin’s reasons were GREAT!
I would also add that Stalin’s blockade of West Berlin preceded the formation of NATO. Not exactly the behavior of a trustworthy ally.
Oh boy. I don't have time to deprogram you. Suffice to say your bullshit doesn't match reality.
I feel like "explode every piece of Russian military equipment in the country and the soldiers that operate them" is a solution.
The solution is for Russia to fuck out of Ukraine and we can have peace. Easy.
Now ask Russia to do that mr pope
What solution is there right now ? Putin has no interest and plans to keep have Russians fighting.
Also, Putin publicly stated their conditions for victory about this time last year: quite literally the total obliteration of Ukrainian identity as a separate culture, and the total integration of the whole of Ukraine into Russia.
You cannot negotiate any form of lasting peace with an enemy that is fighting to deny your very existence. It just doesn't work that way.
You have to remember that the Pope is South American and to the political leaders of South America, especially those on the left, the US is evil and therefore Ukraine has the wrong friends.
In this regard, the bias of Pope Francis against the United States has put him on the wrong side of history.
He could have unified the Orthodox (minus Russia) with the Catholic Church but he has failed a huge failure. He could have increased support for Ukraine and end the war faster. He could have condemned the Russian Orthodox clergy that promote this evil was against the people of Ukraine. He has failed.
Victory to Ukraine!
Be great if this pope cared as much about the children his organisation sexually abused daily, than he does about sucking off Putin.
"Telesur" is not the best source according to: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/telesur/
Here another source, PBS
The other source has different quotations and telesur articles may have poor sourcing however this one has direct quotes from Pope Franci's speech.