epicspongee

Except it is the specific idea that compels them to resist their occupiers. Because they say it is. Saying otherwise is doing literally exactly the same thing that white Americans did that caused indigenous native Americans to have to change their practices, which they did not see as religious, to fit into the western white European understandings of the word 'religion' in order to receive government funding. Even if a Marxist or materialist analysis of the situation says in general that oppressed peoples 'usually' or 'always' react a specific way because of a specific force, you're missing the point that that is a scientific theory. It is an abstraction. That does not mean it is reality or the only way of viewing a situation.

Your understanding of the situation and how it fits in with your worldview is different than the point of view of the Palestinians actually experiencing the situation. Again, I want to point you to the broad literature of the study of religion that shows just exactly what happens when dudes with white, western ideas of how the world works try to impose those on native indigenous populations.

Your point of view of how the situation works, or your understanding of the powers at play, is not reality. That is your interpretation of reality, a very useful abstraction that is very usually right. But that abstraction has contexts where it is appropriate to apply it, and contexts where it is inappropriate to apply it. And trying to apply it to deny the very real primary motivation that Palestinian people say is motivating them is not a great place to apply that abstraction.

I mean no, it's not. The main anti-colonial group left in Gaza, which is massively popular, is an organization whose primary driving force is Islam. Religion is an incredibly important cultural force that is a key driving factor for Gazans and other Palestinian people in this fight. That is a materialist analysis of the situation lol because that is what the Palestinians themselves are saying. Just look at the wording used by the people there: the dead aren't the dead but 'martyrs', and this isn't just a conflict but a 'jihad' (righteous fight).

Hakim is very correctly noting the obvious here in that a vast majority of the Palestinians are Muslim and that their faith is a primary driver of this conflict for them. Painting in broad strokes isn't denying that there aren't any secular Palestinians, but talking about how Palestinians are fighting back and resisting in aggregate / at a zoomed out level.

The only anti-colonial group left in Gaza that is actively fighting back against colonialist oppression is Hamas, an Muslim organization whose religion is their primary guiding force. If you read their 2017 charter they very much have demands and a strategy that agree with a materialist understanding of the situation (as close as it matters). As a people and an organization indigenous to the area, it is important to understand how they specifically think, and their religion and religious thought is an important part of that.

Just because something "isn't materialist" doesn't mean that "it doesn't work". I would highly recommend you take a course or two on the study of religion, because that kind of phrasing and thinking has been used to ignore, oppress, and extinguish very useful and valid cultures, traditions, and ways of viewing the world from native indigenous populations. I don't have the book name on me, but I did a course on the medical and religious traditions of various African cultures and how those indigenous traditions solve shortfalls that allopathic medicine even today is still struggling to fix. For example, one tradition had a very big emphasis on understanding the person as a whole, within the community they interacted in. This stands in stark contrast to allopathic medicine's view of "solving medical problems as they come up", and we're realizing now that that has limits.

What I'm trying to say is you can come to the same answer through different means. We have lots of historical examples of native indigenous people coming up with something without 'science' or materialism that white European settlers wouldn't come up with until centuries later. A materialist analysis of history proves this is the case. Materialism may be more likely to come to a correct answer, but it's reductionist and frankly just asshole-ish to be like "hurr durr religion is when ur dumb" when religious traditions are so much more rich that than. Materialism and Marxism are a single way of looking at and analyzing the world. If you are dismissing any other method of analysis solely because it does not agree with western European notions of what 'materialism' is, you are going to miss a lot of beauty and nuance in the world, and frankly people just aren't going to want to talk to you.

Too much reading /j

WE WIN

The 'capital' in 'capitalism' means nothing and is there for no reason

Seconding Blowback, I'm six episodes in and went from "Hmm I feel icky about Cuba" to "Holy fucking shit I can't believe we would do that to them, I unequivocally support Cuba"

Why do you argue so fucking far past the point it's obvious you're wrong? You're an entire branching comment tree in this post. You never give up on a single point but you're getting bodied left and right.

I'm laughing so hard I almost shat my pants reading this thread

"All the they/thems in this thread are bigots, they're actually right-wingers!" - WTF is this take

To be clear in the dunking threads folks are not usually engaging in good faith with us. When I was on another server and replied with actual questions to stuff everyone was incredibly nice to me and explained stuff super well. Can agree though that folks can see dunking as alientating. I promise though if you can get past that it's one of the friendliest communities I've found on the web.

took public transportation to get there

We have /c/urbanism so this is doubly true lol