this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 99 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Voting Biden. Fuck all these takes. I'll never vote R again and I'll always vote. You old bastards die mad at the world.

[–] [email protected] 77 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Many of these folks are still going to hold their nose and vote for Biden. A lot of these takes are valid criticisms without necessarily meaning they aren't voting for him. Hating every candidate and voting for one anyway is a long standing tradition here in Canada.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

THEN OFFER A SOLUTION. GIVE AN ALTERNATIVE.

FFS I am so tired of this. It’s a critique with no idea what to do instead.

Here are the 4 options

  • Vote Trump

  • Vote Biden

  • Vote 3rd party/independent/write-in

  • Don’t vote

What do any of these critiques do to change this? Are they saying to not vote Biden and do one of the alternative 3 options? What’s the end goal here?

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

THEN OFFER A SOLUTION. GIVE AN ALTERNATIVE.

Replace him at the Convention. The Party's donors are fucking panicking right now lol

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You think people got mad when Hillary Clinton was "selected" at the Democratic Convention after a nationwide series of primary elections and delegates all voted with her as the winner, can you imagine the shitstorm unilaterally picking some other candidate to replace Joe Biden without even the pretense of a primary process?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

There was barely the pretense of a primary anyway, no one serious ran against Biden and there weren't debates and anyone who voted against Biden was screamed at by the entire rest of the Party. People are already pretty mad about that, and then being told "vote for this nursing home patient or the government will kill you" isn't making it better.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So unilaterally picking someone else will make it.. better?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Biden is behind Trump in gd New Jersey, which has been a democratic stronghold since 1988. Biden is unfit for office now and he's only getting older! How much worse will he be by the next debate? Or by the election? Will he even make it to November??

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So what do you do?

You advocate for replacing him at the convention.

With whom? How do you select this person?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I heard an interesting idea on DemocracyNow

I was trying to lay out a process that would create an organized and very democratic and transparent process to choose a new nominee. It would basically compress the primary process into a month.

There are 400-plus members of the Democratic National Committee. It would convene, nominations would be open, and we would get a requirement that anyone who wanted to be nominated for president or run in this primary would have to have the signature of 40 sitting members of the Democratic National Committee, including at least four from each of the four regions of the party. Now, since there’s only 400-plus members, very few people could actually do that. It would be people that we know. It would be Governor Whitmer, it would be Cory Booker, it would be Kamala Harris and Governor Newsom and Governor Pritzker and maybe Governor Shapiro from Pennsylvania — people who already have a constituency and have states with members, enough members on the DNC that they would be able to get the required 40 in a week’s time.

Then they would begin to campaign. They’d be certified by the secretary as legitimate nominees. They would show they have a national base of support among elected Democratic Party officials. And then the party would organize a couple of town halls, televised town halls, where the candidates would appear. We’d go to the convention, and it would be like the convention of 1960, where it would be wall-to-wall campaigning for delegates, the elected delegates, most of whom are Biden delegates. He would release them.

And it would be pretty exciting. The networks, the media would cover it wall to wall, as opposed to the way they cover these scripted conventions now, which maybe give it an hour or two each night. We’d have nominations from the floor. We’d have the speeches given. We’d have the horse trading taking place between state delegations. And an eventual nominee would be elected, probably after more than one ballot. But people would leave the convention with the new nominee energized, with wind in that nominee’s sails.

But as for what I am going to do? I'm going to keep screaming at them to do their fucking jobs!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Replacing nationwide primaries with a private 400-person schmoozefest at the last minute is moving in the wrong direction.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Trump winning is the wrong direction. What can actually prevent that is replacing Biden.

If you don't like replacing him at the convention, how about a single nationwide mail-in primary ballot?

There's options! There's still time!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Primaries are held by the states, before the Convention. It's.. kind of the whole point?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The point is to give voters a ~~change~~ (EDIT Er, a chance, not change lol) to express their preferences before the Convention. The primaries aren't legally binding, they're just a fancy opinion poll.

A mail-in ballot fulfills the same function.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It sounds like you are advocating for primaries.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

I'm advocating for replacing Biden by any means necessary. I think a condensed super-primary would be the best way to do it, but I'm not opposed to him being replaced at the Convention either.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Who announced their intention to run against Biden and got screamed at by the entire party that was actually a serious contender? We had one no-chance tepid foot put forward. That’s it. I bet you can’t even name them without looking it up.

You’re just making shit up now.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Who announced their intention to run against Biden and got screamed at by the entire party that was actually a serious contender?

Not what I said. I said anyone who voted against Biden got screamed at. Did you forget?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Then I misread it, my mistake.

Either way, nobody ran against him except one small timer who had no shot. If you had given me an alternative then id have taken it. The people who voted against him didn’t vote for another candidate. It was signaling displeasure/disagreement/anger over Israel-Palestine, and the discussion around that was far more nuanced than you are implying. Plenty of people said “it’s the primary, this is the time to make your real opinion heard” when folks got upset. Unless you think CNN or whatever represents everyone?

There was never and there continues not to be a challenger. At some point you can’t ask people to vote for an alternative when there is no alternative being offered.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They voted for "anyone else" and that matters.

There isn't a challenger because the Party doesn't want there to be one. There's no alternative being offered, that can be changed.

I'm going to keep posting this because it's so interesting, I heard an interesting idea on DemocracyNow

I was trying to lay out a process that would create an organized and very democratic and transparent process to choose a new nominee. It would basically compress the primary process into a month.

There are 400-plus members of the Democratic National Committee. It would convene, nominations would be open, and we would get a requirement that anyone who wanted to be nominated for president or run in this primary would have to have the signature of 40 sitting members of the Democratic National Committee, including at least four from each of the four regions of the party. Now, since there’s only 400-plus members, very few people could actually do that. It would be people that we know. It would be Governor Whitmer, it would be Cory Booker, it would be Kamala Harris and Governor Newsom and Governor Pritzker and maybe Governor Shapiro from Pennsylvania — people who already have a constituency and have states with members, enough members on the DNC that they would be able to get the required 40 in a week’s time.

Then they would begin to campaign. They’d be certified by the secretary as legitimate nominees. They would show they have a national base of support among elected Democratic Party officials. And then the party would organize a couple of town halls, televised town halls, where the candidates would appear. We’d go to the convention, and it would be like the convention of 1960, where it would be wall-to-wall campaigning for delegates, the elected delegates, most of whom are Biden delegates. He would release them.

And it would be pretty exciting. The networks, the media would cover it wall to wall, as opposed to the way they cover these scripted conventions now, which maybe give it an hour or two each night. We’d have nominations from the floor. We’d have the speeches given. We’d have the horse trading taking place between state delegations. And an eventual nominee would be elected, probably after more than one ballot. But people would leave the convention with the new nominee energized, with wind in that nominee’s sails.

We could find out who the challenger would be by having a democratic and involved party, instead of just waiting for a top-down demand to vote for Harris or whatever.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Yes it matters, as a protest about Israel-Palestine, which I explicitly addressed. Surely you can understand that that is not the same as voting for another candidate? It’s a protest vote, not a vote for or against a candidate. They used the primary as a way to signal their feelings on an issue.

Beyond that: Saying “I just want someone else” is meaningless. Everybody says that across both parties year after year. The moment you put a name forward, then the responses actually matter.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Biden is the most Zionist Democrat in the field. Voting another candidate, inherently, means voting for someone less supportive of Israel

And it doesn't fucking matter what name I put forward, I'm not the one in charge of the party. Names can come forward naturally and democratically as part of a condensed nominating process.

I, personally, think Michelle Obama would do well and could be a good President. I don't like Kamala Harris but she has a lot of advantages and I guess I could vote for her.

But what I want are candidates to present themselves and make their case, not for them to be hand picked. Democracy.

That's not my fucking job.

That's theirs and they should fucking do it.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago

There was a full primary in 2020 and in modern times incumbent presidents don’t have primaries in their second terms.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The great thing about a lemmy.ml comment is I can just down vote without reading because I know its bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

It's like I'm back on Reddit 😂

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

With who? In case you haven't been paying attention, nobody polls better than Biden. The majority of voters are mush-brained dipshits who operate off name recognition and vague feelings.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yeah, because he's the only one actually campaigning. That has an impact on polls!

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

You're dodging my question. With who?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

As I said elsewhere, I heard an interesting idea on DemocracyNow

I was trying to lay out a process that would create an organized and very democratic and transparent process to choose a new nominee. It would basically compress the primary process into a month.

There are 400-plus members of the Democratic National Committee. It would convene, nominations would be open, and we would get a requirement that anyone who wanted to be nominated for president or run in this primary would have to have the signature of 40 sitting members of the Democratic National Committee, including at least four from each of the four regions of the party. Now, since there’s only 400-plus members, very few people could actually do that. It would be people that we know. It would be Governor Whitmer, it would be Cory Booker, it would be Kamala Harris and Governor Newsom and Governor Pritzker and maybe Governor Shapiro from Pennsylvania — people who already have a constituency and have states with members, enough members on the DNC that they would be able to get the required 40 in a week’s time.

Then they would begin to campaign. They’d be certified by the secretary as legitimate nominees. They would show they have a national base of support among elected Democratic Party officials. And then the party would organize a couple of town halls, televised town halls, where the candidates would appear. We’d go to the convention, and it would be like the convention of 1960, where it would be wall-to-wall campaigning for delegates, the elected delegates, most of whom are Biden delegates. He would release them.

And it would be pretty exciting. The networks, the media would cover it wall to wall, as opposed to the way they cover these scripted conventions now, which maybe give it an hour or two each night. We’d have nominations from the floor. We’d have the speeches given. We’d have the horse trading taking place between state delegations. And an eventual nominee would be elected, probably after more than one ballot. But people would leave the convention with the new nominee energized, with wind in that nominee’s sails.

The question of "with who" would be answered by an exciting democratic process that would energize the Party for the election.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You’re dodging my question.

So fuggen funny how he was all pompous like he had some point to make and then slunk off like a bitch complete with a farewell downvote when you gave an excellent answer.

Hahaha! glorious! Glorious work i tells ya! I live for shit like this

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago

If anything, the person you're responding to is advocating for voting for Biden. (They stated they live in Canada, so I'd imagine they won't be voting for Biden themselves.)

Are you misunderstanding, responding to folks who are planning not to vote for Biden (who aren't even mentioned in the post you're responding to), or arguing it's not ok to voice criticisms of Biden at all (regardless of whether one plans to vote for him or not)?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Again, your narrative is dependent on this false premise you've set up that Biden "has" to be the nominee.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I’d love to know what we citizens can do to convince the DNC to stop nominating these out-of-touch antiques for candidates?

I’m serious. Because until we get the DNC to change their behavior, this same shit is going to continue to happen.

There’s a reason why the likes of Bernie Sanders and AOC don’t get nominated. It’s because they won’t toe the line of what the DNC wants.

And voting third party does no good. It’s a losing choice that only helps the republicans; because any vote that is not for the D is a vote for an R.

Third parties do not get fair treatment during elections, so they do not get the same exposure. And everyone knows it’s all about the exposure you get. Mostly through adverts, mailers, phone calls, etc.. But also TV airtime, news articles, debates, and so on.

Yeah it’s unfair and it’s bullshit and woulda shoulda coulda. Make all the excuses you want; shit ain’t changing until this duopoly is changed. And right now, they’ve got their heads so far up their asses that they can lick their own uvulas.

So how do we change that? Seriously. Legitimately. Realistically.

Because not voting for Biden is the same as voting for Trump, and goddamnit we cannot survive another term with that poor excuse for a human being.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

Because not voting for ~~Biden~~ the Democratic nominee is the same as voting for Trump, and goddamnit we cannot survive another term with that poor excuse for a human being.

Ftfy.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

AOC... There now you have an alternative. No one can prevent Dems from losing but Biden. He has to step aside. Otherwise Trump is going to get elected.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'm voting Biden, but I still hate both him and Trump, and I hate that he's refusing to drop out even though every D voter in the country is begging him to drop out.

The only reason I'm voting for him is because I want to stave off fascism for another 4 years.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I treat an R like 7-up: never have, never will.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

For those too young to remember the commercial: