politics

not voting for trump is a vote for biden. you're welcome!

You can't make me vote for genocide

But seriously: if you're not voting for Biden, does that mean you instead vote for Trump? Or do you not vote at all? What if that results in another Trump presidency? What is the argument against voting for the lesser evil? Is it a matter of principle, then?

1. No, lmao.

2. Maybe, or maybe vote for Jill Stein of the Greens or Claudia De La Cruz of PSL.

3. Leftists voting for leftists will not be what results in a Trump presidency. What will is Biden killing his own chances by doubling down on failing liberalism and genocide, blaming voters for disengaging from one genocidal party is wrong.

4. The argument against voting for the lesser of 2 evils is only applicable if electoralism actually works. Historically, backing genocide and failing liberalism instead of taking a principled stance just results in further evil the next time around.

5. It isn't a matter of "principle," per se. If I were to ask you if you would rather vote for 50 genocides, 100 genocides, or 0 genocides, even if 0 genocides hasn't been elected yet, would you back the 50 genocide candidate or assume it to be a lost cause? What about 1 genocide, 1 genocide, and 0 genocides? When do you jump ship? People against voting for Biden think 1 genocide is enough to ditch him over.

Unless you think Trump is the superior candidate, in which case I am not really interested in talking to you.

Nobody here really thinks that except people who think Trump would destabilize NATO.

I mean, yes, it would be better if instead of Biden they ran someone younger and more progressive. And even better would be if the ridiculous two-party system was replaced altogether. But slim as the chance of that happening with Biden is, it is surely even more unlikely for that to happen with the Republicans and Trump in power, right?

What makes you think the Democrats would change the system that works for them? Neither the DNC nor GOP are interested in fielding Leftist candidates or passing major electoral reform. The first option harms their donors, and the second harms their electoral chances, as most people prefer third party policies.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just genuinely confused as it seems I'm missing something that's perhaps obvious to you.

You're missing the core throughline that people here believe positive change is impossible electorally at the federal level, and change instead comes from unionizing, protesting, organizing, and generally performing direct action. Read The State and Revolution if you're serious about learning.

Lesser evilism is still choosing evil, and furthermore there isn't a substantial difference between Biden and Trump as presidents besides Trump being loud and boorish. It's been 40 years of picking the less worse option but things, shockingly, still get worse, never better.

Biden has opened more land to oil and gas extraction than Trump. Biden has retained the concentration camps at the border that trump opened and expanded them. Biden's asylum policy is worse than Trump's. Biden's foreign policy is to indiscriminately kill to serve the US MIC, same as Trump. Biden is enthusiastically servicing the Palestinian genocide and frankly Trump couldn't be worse if he tried because Biden is going full throttle maximum effort short of invading with US troops (wait, that hostage rescue that killed hundreds of people was done from the US pier). Abortion rights were federally ended under Biden, who even before the supreme court deciding he has unlimited power could have done any number of things to reassert them. The MeToo movement was killed the moment Biden was in its crosshairs. Biden is apparently ruling with an inner circle of family and close friends as advisors, same as Trump. Infrastructure continues to crumble under Biden. Biden was a key part of passing draconian crime bills, and Biden is the reason student loans can never be expunged. Biden personally believes that women don't deserve bodily autonomy. The child tax credit died under Biden, causing millions of children to fall below the poverty line. Biden has continued Trump's trade war against China, putting huge tariffs on EVs and solar panels while the US is pummelled by climate change and desperately needs these technologies. Biden ended a number of testing and prevention programs fighting the COVID pandemic, which is ongoing, and directed the CDC to stop reporting the bad numbers that they still get from limited monitoring. Further, Biden has been unwilling to take action against a brewing bird flu epidemic which has crossed into humans. Biden has done nothing at all about the rise in trans hate crimes and hundreds of anti-trans laws passed under his watch.

Biden isn't better than Trump. He's continuing Trump's policies. He literally just reinstated a Trump rule allowing hunters to shoot baby bears in their dens so there's less predators around for trophy elk hunting.

Liberals were marching in the streets against Trump but when Biden didn't change a thing that Trump was actually doing it was back to brunch. Leftists are materialists: we base our thoughts and actions on reality. You liberals are idealists: someone politely shooting you in the face is better than someone doing it rudely.

Not here to debate you but you sound really servile and pathetic. Maybe look at it again when you get past bargaining and into anger.

Is it a matter of principle, then?

If "I will not support genocide" isn't among your principles then what is?

Biden being the lesser evil is a big ol' "Citation Needed" because (to state one of many reasons) he can get away with a lot more than Trump can, because of liberals who stop protesting and turn their brains off when a democrat is in office. (not to say every single liberal does, but Biden's term has been full of atrocities and has not attracted nearly the scale of protest that Trump's did, though now with palestine it's seeing some (just without the broad base of support liberal protests under Trump had).

If you think getting Biden elected is so important, why are you wasting your time trying to convince leftists that his administration clearly isn't trying to cater to? Wouldn't it be more productive to get on right wing forums and explain to them that Biden is the better candidate for getting more "illegals" deported, for increasing funding of the police state, stopping the BLM protests, and increasing funding for the war machine many times over?

When it comes to regressive, far right policy, Trump may talk a lot of shit but Biden gets it done.

I'm voting green

This should be in a sidebar somewhere explaining the communist perspective on electoralism but since I don't see it I'll engage, I'm voting 3rd party like I have in every election previously. On a fundamental level "blue no matter who" does not help. The failures of Neo-liberalism lead to the conditions that gave birth to the MAGA movement, we had 8 years of Obama before Trump and 4 years of Biden, so why is Trump a threat still? On its good days liberalism (including neo) is incapable of fighting fascism, on its normal days it joins fascism (Obama deported more people than Bush, Biden more than Trump). As for your point about the lesser evil, it's one part principle and one part realist, if my choices are 99% Hitler and 100% Hitler the system is already fucked and needs to be destroyed (again see one of he many writeups about electoralism).

Let me tell you the thing that changed my mind on lesser evil voting.

It used to be, when people said "if you vote for the lesser evil you are endorsing evil" I would balk, because thats not why I was voting lesser evil right? I was voting for the differences.

Then it hit me, thats not how the candidate and party see my vote is it? No, they see my vote as a 100% endorsement of everything they are doing. Which in this case includes a genocide.

In 50 years I dont want to look children in the face asking me what I did during the Gaza genocide and say "voted for the guy committing the genocide because he was nicer".