this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2024
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I agree with you about some of us being slow on the uptake. I was only thrust to the left when I saw moderates voting for Trump in 2016. At the time I considered myself a lib. A couple presidents before that, I was a "Reagan conservative", which, blegh, makes me want to vomit to think about. We should be open to growth in ourselves, while also allowing space for growth in others.
I fully agree.
The only way to get more people to support Palestine is if people who currently support Israel change.
And that was and is true for every improvement in the world.
Not saying Elizabeth Warren should be free of criticism, but at least give her the tiniest amount of credit when she does take a step in the right direction.
I don't know why I should give her any credit for ”speaking out” when she's a US senator and didn't even do the bare minimum of voting against giving Israel billions in military aid. Warren has been both alive and active in politics long enough that she didn't suddenly realize in May 2024 that Israel kills civilians.
None of them should be given any credit because all American politicians are ghouls.
Their "optics" are just what is given to them by the interests of the ruling class; not the people. The ruling class is worried about losing money..so they're cooling off the literal genocide rhetoric to recoup some stamina before dangling the keys in front of your face again to make you really believe that she or any other democratic senator is doing anything before their proposal, bill, etc gets nuked by the undemocratic Supreme Court and another 15 billion is sent to Israel or Ukraine.
"Meet me in the middle," says the unjust man. You take a step towards him, he takes a step back. "Meet me in the middle," says the unjust man.
It's actually a struggle for me to remain objective on Warren as ive made my decision on her... But objectively wouldn't it be better to withhold that credit until she proves she isn't just doing what's politically expedient for her future as a politician?
Like objectively makes sense to withhold all credit after what she did to Bernie during his campaign and for Biden on super Tuesday?
Thinking about that will inform her motives now. There is no "step in the right direction" when the only thing moving is their mouths
The way you (and others in this sub) approach it is very all-or-nothing and very ineffective.
We should say, "thanks Lizzy for speaking up, we appreciate you and we would ask you to support an arms embargo so that our tax money doesn't go towards killing innocent children".
This is exactly what the more effective anti-genocide activists are doing.
You are utterly deranged.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Elizabeth_Warren#Israeli-Palestinian_Conflict
Look at her record as a senator, not her worthless words. She's done less than nothing to rein in Israel or to help the Palestinian cause. Keep sucking on Lizzy's toes and maybe you will earn enough goodboy points to get her to call Netanyahu a jackass or something. Very moving!
If this is a bit, it’s seriously a really good one.
Yeah i can't wait for them to find this. I don't think this is a high energy enough lib to really get a shamethread cooking tho
Me: brings verifiable information to the subject at hand
You: pivots to personal attacks
If you were an objective observer of this discussion, which of these two parties would you say failed to avoid logical fallacies/engage in effective activism of their cause?
The way you're approaching genocide is very "nothing is all." Look at her voting record. Expressing vocally and actually voting are different subjects.
Why? It's not bad to speak up, but if nothing is materially changing, it's nothing but vibes.
Wrong. The more effective anti-genocide activists are Palestine Action, and they are directly sabotaging the tools used to facilitate genocide, not standing and clapping for someone who has voted for genocide for decades.
Ngl I don't think you live in reality, when has this approach ever caused change?