this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2024
99 points (98.1% liked)

Ask Lemmy

26903 readers
1540 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions

Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try [email protected]


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [email protected] or [email protected]. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email [email protected]. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Let hear them conjects

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Sweden is fairly unique as it's economy wasn't destroyed by WWII, and it's stance on banking, foreign exports, and foreign ownership has enabled it to make massive profits. But the economy is seriously struggling today. The average home loan takes 100 years to pay off.

Finland economy replaces oil with timber and an extremely educated population. Both of which are not sustaining the model well as the country is in recession. The timber industry isnt producing sustainable profits like it used to. The debt-to-GDP ratio is extremely high. The highly educated population is leaving and people don't typically immigrate to Finland.

So arguably the model isn't working anymore, without something like oil to fall back on.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Clearly no Nordic country is a panacea. But the issues you mention are relevant to a whole bunch of northern European countries, many of which are pretty "socialist" by American standards.

On the oil question, Norway is in any case the international exception. Most countries with oil are not socialist paradises but rather repressive police states. Or semi-failed, like Venezuela. Even before the climate crisis made it unethical, oil was a decent predictor of bad social outcomes. Norway aside, the world's most successful countries, as measured by HDI rather than GDP, tend to have few natural resources. Or almost none at all, like Japan and Germany.

It irritates me that, even today, people keep mentioning oil as some kind of magic solution. It's the opposite and always has been.

Norway being the only exception.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I'm not sure if people are suggesting that oil itself is a magical solution or if they're suggesting that having exclusive access to an extremely profitable resource (oil) enables a country with a tiny population to make socialism work.

I have a strange feeling that if oil became worthless Norway would quickly stop doing socialism well

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Not sure I understand this obsession with Norway. Its neighbors are doing just as well, and are just as "socialist" by American standards. The only substantive difference is that they don't have sovereign wealth funds worth trillions. Because, all that oil money - Norway does not spend it. It keeps it for a rainy day. What makes Norway successful is not the oil money. The winning formula is human capital, not natural capital.

Denmark is as successful a country as Norway on pretty much any metric.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I have family in Sweden, and that doesn't sound like what they talk about. A modest salary - local gov worker or a teacher - seems to be enough for a modest 3bd detached house of a pricing similar to ours.

Where are you getting 100 years? Is that a thing outside Asia?

Edit: a modest salary EACH. Sorry.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

2016 - 40% of mortgage borrowers are not paying their debt down. Those that are paying principal are doing so at a rate it would take 100 years https://www.swedennews.net/news/225058369/sweden-facing-possible-property-bubble-warns-imf

2014 - Sweden to limit max mortgage to 105 years after average repayment is 140 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/mortgages/sweden-cuts-maximum-mortgage-term-to-105-years-the-average-is-14/

2024 - Countrys household debt to income reaches 180% (down from 199% in 2022) https://www.nordea.com/en/news/household-debt-burden-on-the-decline-in-sweden