this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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God help them. The slaughter to come is probably beyond our imagining

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[–] [email protected] 98 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (7 children)

Netanyahu has just said live on television that they will 'turn Gaza into a deserted island'.

I'm hearing very indirectly along grapevines that among Israelis, including liberals, the mood is becoming - and I quote verbatim - "kill them all".

[–] [email protected] 75 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm hearing very indirectly along grapevines that among Israelis, including liberals, the mood is becoming - and I quote verbatim - "kill them all".

honestly, they're just saying it aloud now, this has always been the mood

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago

It's a question of explicitness, both of expression and in thought.

The out-and-out fascists have always being saying this.

More polite nationalists, conservatives, and the more reptilian liberals who were previously quiet on that front are now frothing in bloodlust like clockwork.

The liberals who present themselves more as progressives, and self-described soc-dems, include many people who, consciously, were not thinking this. What is significant, though I agree that it is not at all surprising, is that their conscious, explicit position is now aligning with the rest of the mainstream Israeli far-right view.

Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

It's also worth bearing in mind that while Israel does not have a massive population, and relies fundamentally on its air-power, once it has fully mobilized it's society for war, which is striking me as a distinct near possibility, it will not take them very long to be ready to launch a massive ground operation, leading to urban warfare in one of the poorest areas of of the world with high population density and a very young population of increasingly desperate, traumatized, people, notably young men.

Now that there are countless videos circulating of Israeli hostages being beaten, soldiers begging for their lives next to the bodies of other soldiers, videos of women being put into cars and reports of not only killing but torture and sexual violence, the Israeli point of view is rapidly radicalizing further and is only going to continue to do so.

[–] [email protected] 65 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Surprise, Zionism is a right wing ideology! There is no such thing as a liberal/leftist Zionists. Zionism is a form of fascism.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago

Zionism is a Christian apocalypse cultist plot

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Sure. Of course. But there are also liberals or people who conceive of themselves as liberals and do not see their living in Israel as effective support for a Zionist settler-colonial project. They are ofc objectively incorrect, but the fact that there is now even further shifts in which their subjectively liberal pov gets moved more explicitly to the right is politically significant. Again it serves no purpose simply saying "liberals are fascists", which is either trivial or nonsense, as it obscures real political differences between them and blinds us to how the politics of a regime are going to shift. It reflects a deepening of the fascism of Israeli state and society. We know that when liberals are scratched fascists often bleed, but not making the distinction between them being objectively part of a fascist project and their being subjectively fascist seems like vulgar materialism to me.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Sorry, that comment/snark wasn't directed at you, I was just making a statement.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Fair enough. Nw.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 10 months ago

I'm hearing very indirectly along grapevines that among Israelis, including liberals, the mood is becoming - and I quote verbatim - "kill them all".

astronaut-1

[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Is that Herr Bibi's Final Solution?

[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago

He followed that statement by rhetorically urging Palestians to leave Gaza (somehow).

It sounds to me like a possible indication that there's going to be a massive ground intervention and escalation of bombing.

I'm sure your question is even more rhetorical but in practice yes as usual it will amount to war crimes and even genocide.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Hilter with all the industrial capacity of Europe killed 6 million Jews

There are 6.5 million Palestinians in the territories, the Israelis don't have enough bullets or bombs and every picture of a dead Palestinian child increases the temperature in every Arab country from Morocco to Iraq and that makes the regimes and their backers nervous

There is a threshold that once reached will make the old Arab spring look like a fuckin pinic party

Palestinians aren't going anywhere and the resistance will continue, unless the settlers want to bring gas chambers in which case they'll have 300 million Arabs rightfully out for blood

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Yes I agree that there is not feasible way that Israeli starts engaging in explicit industrial genocide without catastrophic consequences for them. Israel as a society is simply not feasible in the long-term. If you've every spoken with a young Israeli, this is clearly reflected by the all-pervading nihilism and either openly fascistic settler-colonialist nationalism or hedonistic passivity among them in contemporary Israeli society.

This is also why I think that the actual Israeli objective is rather to use a brutal ground operation to try and decapitate Hamas. But we'll see and I could obviously be wrong.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago